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18 May 2013 @ 05:38 pm
doctor who finale  

I... don't... really know what to say about this one.

I'll be honest up front and say I actually liked it more than I anticipated -- I might almost say "enjoyed", but that might be too strong a word. I didn't hate it, which these days from a Moffat script feels an awful lot like loving? How the turntables, etc. My expectations were as low as they could possibly be, so I guess it's not hard to believe the show sort of... failed to be as utterly terrible as it possibly could be.

In other words, it wasn't "The Wedding of River Song".

There were lots of bits that made me roll my eyes, but none that struck me as outright morally heinous, so that's always nice. Clara's "impossibility" was what I'd predicted since BOSJ, so I felt validated, and even better it was something she chose to do (in as much as one can choose something they've already chosen) rather than something that happened to her by force (like River) or by coincidence (like Amy and the cracks). So... baby steps, right? And it was fun to see the TERRIBLE cgi of Clara blitzing through Classic Who.

Like all Moffat finales though, it falls apart if I think too closely about it. If Simeon (somehow, and irrationally) made "all of the Doctor's victories a failure" and Clara fixed that, this implies that Clara did literally everything that ever happened in Doctor Who. All of it. And that's silly. And we KNOW he "never heard her" or noticed until AOTD and The Snowmen. So if I just ignore the logical implications and assume that the only Claras who ever meaningfully interacted with the Doctor were Oswin and Victorian Clara, uhhh that's fine, I guess. (Also, lots of opportunity for jokes: was the woman in the shop who gave Clara her number a Clara herself? Susan's friend and classmate from 1963, Clara Sandiego?)

Eleven/River remains hilarious to me -- so she's been dead since TATM? What the fuck? Since when? If I shipped it or cared I'd be outraged that we never saw the Singing Towers of Whatsitcalled, and that we never had any indication until now that Eleven considered her dead and gone and mourned her. But Eleven/River shippers and I rarely agree, so I imagine they're quite happy they got a poignant goodbye and a kiss. Is this the last we see of River? Praying to the old gods and the new, personally, but I don't understand logically how we can know that, because surely he could run into another River at any time. (They're not running backwards, despite what Moffat wants me to believe.)

AND of course... the "big reveal" in the end. I can think of several ways John Hurt as this lost, alternate, whatever version of the Doctor who did something terrible and secret might be very interesting. Unfortunately I can almost assuredly count on Steven Moffat to choose the worst of all possible scenarios, so stay tuned for November.

For those who don't frequent Tumblr and may not have seen it immortalized in gif form yet, they also released this:

Much as I may fear what Moffat has in store, I can't say no to an interview where David Tennant talks about Doctor Who while dressed as the Tenth Doctor on a surprisingly flat hair day.
christycorr on May 18th, 2013 11:46 pm (UTC)
Tennant's flat hair is clearly a dreadful omen regarding his Tennishness in the 50th! *grins*

Meh, I haven't seen DW since the wi-fi episode. I should probably catch up, I guess? Was the Neil Gaiman episode good?
Kali: dw :: donna :: in my wedding dress_thirty2flavors on May 19th, 2013 03:37 am (UTC)
lmao yeah, even the wardrobe/makeup team isn't pulling their weight.

S7b was... okay. I really liked one episode but the rest were mostly "meh" in my opinion. I didn't hate it teh way I hated s6, but I didn't love anything the way I loved Doctor's Wife or Girl Who Waited, so... I dunno. I thought Gaiman's episode was quite bad actually, but it sounds like maybe the stuff that might've saved it all wound up on the cutting room floor.
bussbussbussbuss on May 19th, 2013 12:56 am (UTC)
I mean... I am just... I'm not surprised that Moffat thinks one of his boring ass companions (who I actually liked at first) is important enough to insert throughout the entirety of Doctor Who... but it still kind of irks me. It's just so colossal. I guess I kind of hold a double standard because Rose inserted Bad Wolf throughout the Doctor's timeline but even that doesn't feel as invasive. Also oh River was dead? WHO KNEW? Like did he just get tired of writing her into finale's? Did they never even properly travel together? She still doesn't even feel like a proper companion. I don't understand any of it. Also if Nine is fucked up then whats going to happen to mah Rose!
bussbussbussbuss on May 19th, 2013 01:00 am (UTC)
also I could have done without the INTRODUCING JOHN HURT AS THE DOCTOR part at the end.
Kali: dw :: nine :: fantastic_thirty2flavors on May 19th, 2013 06:36 am (UTC)
Yeah, it is "colossal". I don't mind if I think of it as Clara kind of fracturing through time, just glimpses of her seeing the Doctor -- but the idea of each of those Claras being an individual autonomous person with a birth story and a life and then a death etc is too much. Happily for me Moffat will never dwell on any of those details, so my theory will hold up just fine.

LOL RIVER. I liked her scene with Eleven in this ep more than 90% of their other scenes, but it was too little too late. And it's so DUMB because it would be so EASY to have Eleven make a throw-away mention to his friend "Professor Song" who died, and then it would add up with a) Clara having heard of her and b) us knowing River is dead. His sulk in the Snowmen makes more sense if River is dead, too -- but we didn't know that at the time. Wtf.

I hope that whatever John Hurt did is unrelated to the Time War, but Moffat hates me so it'll probably be just that. The Time War to me seems like so clearly RTD's baby, wrapped up in EOT, and it has meant so little to Eleven's/Moffat's era that revisiting it in the 50th seems wrong.
Opalshinyopals on May 19th, 2013 08:29 am (UTC)
Also if Eleven had shown any sign of giving any fucks about the Time War still I might be less against it (not much less mind you) but he's had multiple opportunities in s7b to references the war and he appears to have just been oblivious to them all. There were parallels in Hide and in Nightmare in Silver and they just went completely ignored.

let's pray for some LAUNCH THE TIMEONIC MISSILE style lines lol
Liz: Office: Pam resignedbazcat89 on May 19th, 2013 03:31 pm (UTC)
Eleven/River remains hilarious to me -- so she's been dead since TATM? What the fuck? Since when? If I shipped it or cared I'd be outraged that we never saw the Singing Towers of Whatsitcalled, and that we never had any indication until now that Eleven considered her dead and gone and mourned her.

Kali_thirty2flavors on May 19th, 2013 05:30 pm (UTC)
lol yep

River is introduced in this ep through like a... um... mental/psychic "conference call" with Clara and some others. She follows Clara around as like a hologram that "only Clara can see and hear" and we find out that from the Doctor's POV, River is dead. The hologram or w/e she is is from the Library databanks.

Then later in the ep we find out the Doctor CAN actually see/hear River, and they have like a goodbye scene. I'll find a gifset. So this happens and then he's like "but you're an echo, you should have faded by now" and then this happens. And then her last line is "goodbye, sweetie" and her hologrammy thing disappears:

TBH I thought it was almost sweet -- like better written than 90% of their interactions and one of the only times I've gotten the impression the Doctor gave a fuck about her -- it was just way too little too late. The biggest BS is that I guess she's been "dead" in the Doctor's mind this whole time but we've had NO indication. earlier in the ep, Clara says the Doctor has mentioned "professor song" before, but we've never seen him do that. It would've been so easy to throw in one brief River reference by having him mention his old friend Professor Song who died, or w/e.

Edited at 2013-05-19 05:30 pm (UTC)
ibishtar: Doctor Who nothing changesibishtar on May 20th, 2013 01:01 am (UTC)
I enjoyed the finale. I actually ended up liking the concept of Trenzalore, although it seemed to have nothing to do with the Fall of the Eleventh (silence did fall, though! good for that, at least) and I like how the name thing was handled and how it lead to the cliffhanger. I liked that Clara got to be so heroic and the nostalgic montages were sweet. I thought the River stuff was really good, such a pity most of her storyline over the last couple of seasons has been a car crash, but it was nice to see respect towards her character in the writing at last. It would have had more impact if the lead-up had been better.

Edited at 2013-05-20 01:04 am (UTC)
wheatear: foxy doctorwheatear on May 20th, 2013 06:18 pm (UTC)
I might almost say "enjoyed", but that might be too strong a word.

lol, oh well. You were close!

That video made my evening though.
bluebell1916bluebell1916 on May 22nd, 2013 07:55 pm (UTC)
If Trensalore is where the Doctor ultimately ended up, imo Tentoo got the better end of the metacrisis deal when he was dropped off in Pete's world with Rose. I've never been a River/Eleven fan, but this ep had me feeling sorry for River Song. Stuck in the library data base, she's the latest in a long line of the Doctor's cast offs. Compared to that, Amy and Rory had a lucky escape when the Angel sent them out of the Doctor's reach.

The concept of Clara showing up in multiple time streams to save the Doctor is hilarious imo. I am willing to bet this will be inflicted on us in some form during the 50th anniversary ep. Fortunately for us, the "Clara saving the Doctor" thing will last as long as JLC is on the show and then it will be forgotten. It's good for a laugh in the meantime.
Circe: Team TARDISredcirce on May 26th, 2013 04:23 am (UTC)
So I haven't seen the ep, so maybe they covered this, but how have Clara and River not ever run into the secret Doctor if Clara fixed his entire lifetime and River's known so many incarnations? Like, if the villains in the ep were trying to fuck up his timeline wouldn't his biggest shame be a great place to start?

Also, after 4 seasons of Nine and Ten emoting about it and millions of words of fanfic I am 1000% done with Timewar stories.

Bless CE for refusing to participate in this mess. Though I'm going to be crying bitter tears over the thought that we could have had a super sexy (and totally willing!) Paul McGann playing a dark Doctor.
Rashka the Demon (wolf in the cave): Doctor/Rose  Nine glowrashaka on June 4th, 2013 12:21 am (UTC)
My heart is skipping a beat for Ten's return.

I didn't even watch the last few seasons....not since Eleven's christmas special wig the sharks. Is it worth it? I hated the Pandora box finale and I don't like River Song and I don't like that the Doctor falls in love with everyone now (from what tumblr has me thinking he and Clara are a love story too) and ugh.... But I also miss the fun parts of DW.
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