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30 September 2012 @ 12:56 pm
apparently 7x05 reawoke some things  
Okay I’m going to posit an issue I’ve had with the Weeping Angels since “Blink”, but it has spoilers for TATM so behind the cut:

I feel like neither the show nor many members of fandom really give what the Weeping Angels can do enough weight. Like I often see people in fandom saying “oh well they just send you into the past they don’t kill you that’s fine”, and in the show, other than the people in the “farm” who apparently live out their lives in a single hotel room getting room service from weeping angels, or the people who had their neck snapped for lolwhatever reason, all the people who DO get sent into the past have a good time of it. They get married and make babies and they’re happy, in the end.

But I mean, MAN does that seem like underselling what this would really be like.

I mean, you wouldn’t have an identity, for starters. How do you do anything? Get a job? Rent a place? Have any money, at all, to do any of those things in the first place? You’ve got nothing but the clothes on your back and zero connections. With Ten, Martha and by extension Billy, we can handwave that they flubbed some of this stuff via psychic paper. With Sally’s friend (what was her name?), she ~meets a man~ and I guess he takes care of all that for her. (By following her until she learns to love him! Great.) But with Amy and Rory…? I mean even their accents will make it obvious they don’t belong.

Anyway, assuming they somehow find an apartment and a means to pay for it, then what? What kind of job options will Amy have? She can go into writing I guess, she publishes Melody Malone, but…? Not a huge amount of money there. She could model again maybe? And Rory — what was the field like for male nurses in the late 30s? I am assuming not great? And even regardless, he’s got 21st-century medical knowledge. Surely there’ll be a lot of tech and procedures and stuff he’s not familiar with, and even lots he probably knows are ineffectual/harmful/whatever. And that’s not even getting into, like, LOL HAVE FUN WITH WORLD WAR II AND THE COLD WAR AND EVERY OTHER SHITTY THING YOU READ ABOUT IN SCHOOL AND NOW GET TO LIVE THROUGH.

Plus like… the show really seems to ignore that some places just aren’t great times to be a woman, or black, or what have you. Everyone just seems fine with this, like 1938 or 1969 or 18whatever is just as good as where they’re originally from. “Dear Sally, I didn’t have the right to vote, but I got to marry a dude and have a lot of children without access to modern contraceptives so it’s fine”???? I DUNNO MAN. Omg and Sally’s friend’s letter being all ~I ALWAYS WANTED TO START A NEW LIFE~. WHO THE SHIT WANTS TO START A NEW LIFE IN AN ERA WHERE THEY LACK BASIC RIGHTS?!? NO ONE, THAT IS WHO.

So anyway Amy and Rory get a happy ending in the sense that they get to be together, and like every other Weeping Angeled person they say they had a happy life, because how could you not be happy ~living to death~ in an era without the same kind of societal norms, legal rights, creature comforts you’re accustomed to, right? Like, we spent most of “The Power of Three” establishing that Amy and Rory were finally building themselves a real life they liked — Rory had a job he loved, they had friends, they had a gorgeous house and Rory’s ~dream car, etc. But they don’t get to keep any of those things. I’ve seen a lot of people say this is the happiest ending for a New Who companion, and… I dunno guys. Martha, Donna and Rose all got to be with the men they loved too, and they didn’t lose everything else in their life to do it.

Whatever, I guess. Maybe they can Wikipedia stock market trends on their superphones and just invest wisely.
(Deleted comment)
Kali: dw :: amy/rory :: i waited for you_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 07:07 pm (UTC)
In terms of the end of Amy's story it's even more like... I don't know. What WAS Amy's story? Was Amy's story, all this time, really just about her choosing between the Doctor and Rory? Is that it? What did series 6 bring to the table, re: Amy?

If I'm generous and assume series 5 was indeed about Amy growing up (coded as her marrying Rory) but realizing that growing up and adventure aren't mutually exclusive (she keeps traveling even after getting married), then how does that tie into what happened in this episode? She realizes she... can't have adventure and her husband after all? There could be a story like "she realizes the adventure of living a day-to-day life", but that's not really what we got. And s6 is in the middle of this making it even more complicated. Amelia Pond, this is how your story ends, but what was it ABOUT?

and lol no problem! Welcome.
fauxkarenfauxkaren on September 30th, 2012 07:44 pm (UTC)
What did series 6 bring to the table re: anything?

LOL For seriously though. I understand Amy's series 5 story. But I am at a total loss as to what her story was in series 6.

The best I can guess about Amy's story is that choosing the everyday is ok when it's with someone you love?????????????

Can we take up a collection to send Moffat to writing camp?

I think he needs some help.
Kali: dw :: donna :: the doctor-donna_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 07:51 pm (UTC)
Well series 6 did establish stuff for River. TERRIBLE, AWFUL, NO-GOOD STUFF, but stuff. But it was really a season all about River and the mystery of River and the Ponds were just kind of ... there.. pointlessly... as her convenient sperm and egg donors.
Amiewickedgillie on September 30th, 2012 09:05 pm (UTC)
Amy's story seems to be consistent throughout, and barely about her. She's Wendy, and the Doctor is Peter Pan. Wendy got old, and Peter took up with her daughter.
bluebell1916bluebell1916 on September 30th, 2012 09:15 pm (UTC)
I'm thinking Amy's story is about how she came to be the Doctor's mother in law. Except she didn't because that timeline never happened. You know what? I don't have a clue lol.
Opalshinyopals on September 30th, 2012 05:16 pm (UTC)

Kali: dw :: cloen/rose :: just want your kiss_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 07:18 pm (UTC)

lol poor Amy. "Go to her and tell her you'll fuck up her life irreversibly".
in_comescompany: TARDISin_comescompany on September 30th, 2012 08:19 pm (UTC)
"But one time she met a pirate so it's really okay."
MVmrv3000 on September 30th, 2012 05:33 pm (UTC)
It's pretty much a given that the Doctor screws up his companions' lives, but I think this might set a record. Other than getting killed.
Kali: dw :: amy :: i've got your back_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 07:25 pm (UTC)
Yeah, Amy's the only New Who companion who is now worse off than she was before. That's pretty bleak, although I don't think the show realizes this.
Beck: DW - Mr and Mrs Pondbeck_liz on September 30th, 2012 11:43 pm (UTC)
And although they didn't end up getting killed, they still had to go through suicide first, which GAH. The only good thing I can say about it is that they got to live most of their lives with each other, so yay? I guess? *grumble*
bluebell1916bluebell1916 on September 30th, 2012 06:40 pm (UTC)
I must be missing some huge plot point in the story. Can time be rewritten or not? I still don't get why The Doctor can't go back and get them, or River could pop back there and grab onto them and use the vortex manipulator. It's been done before, and Its not as if they don't know where they are. If it was ok for Martha to come back from 1969, why not Rory and Amy? Poor Rory is stuck with himself in the same time period (centurion Rory). Isn't that a paradox? It's all a bit weird :)
Kali_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 07:34 pm (UTC)
I have no answer to any of those questions! And I don't think the show does, either!

It's kind of sad lol because this episode's only job was to come up with a reason Amy can never see the Doctor again, and it didn't even firmly establish any of that. It was just some babble about the TARDIS never landing in New York. OH NOEZ WELL IN THAT CASE
Katherine: TARDISspicandspan89 on September 30th, 2012 06:50 pm (UTC)
You're right, I'd never even thought about this. On the plus side: electricity and plumbing, and foreknowledge of wise investments (were they given superphones? I can't remember). On the minus side: no birth certificates, Rory is a male nurse with no qualifications, the sexist bullshit Amy will have to deal with.

Tbf RTD didn't always consider some of these Unfortunate Implications (case in point: Ursula the paving slab). I know Amy was able to publish the book, so they must have been okay. But even a flashback of Amy and Rory showing they were okay would have been nice. I'm sure someone out there is writing fic about this, but I just don't care enough to go check.

The Weeping Angel farms don't make a lot of sense (GO FIGURE). How does everyone who's trapped there eat, for one? And if they try to escape, are they just sent farther back? It makes no sense that they would just keep everyone around. What exactly are they able to get from someone sitting in a hotel room? I NEED TO STOP TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF THIS.
Kali: dw :: donna :: in my wedding dress_thirty2flavors on October 1st, 2012 01:11 am (UTC)
Yeah it's not the worst possible time period, but I mean pretty much any past time period is going to suck, especially once you hit the 50 year area.

A flashback or a montage or something would've done wonders I think to making the episode feel like proper closure. Couldn't they swing a 50 minute or 60 minute episode for the Ponds' finale?

LOL IKR DO THEY GET ROOM SERVICE??? What's even the point? Why send them back over and over and over? Do you keep sending them further and further back? Why?
Katherine: TARDISspicandspan89 on October 1st, 2012 03:15 am (UTC)
IKR? Going from a world with soft contact lenses, microwaves, instant dinners, and tampons into one where you couldn't talk about religion, sex, or politics in polite company majorly sucks.

I was really hoping for a two-part send-off. Alas...Oh well the plot in this ep would have been unable to sustain another 45 minutes. But you're right, an extra 10 minutes of closure would have been awesome. Maybe the Doctor going to visit Brian. And Eleven and River being nice to each other. (Well damn I feel like a wannabe shipper here.)

...What happens when they get sent back to before the hotel was built? Also, lol @ the mental image of the angels providing shitty room service.
bluebell1916bluebell1916 on September 30th, 2012 07:22 pm (UTC)
At least they are better off than Ursula and her boyfriend. Can you imagine being in a "relationship" with a paving slab :) not one of RTD's most shining moments. Someone on another list was wondering how Amy could be on a hill waving to herself in 2020 (the ep with the underground lizard people) if she is trapped in the past.
sherrilina: Arthur/Chicken (Merlin)sherrilina on October 14th, 2012 05:03 am (UTC)
Lol...guess the writers forgot about that one! (Like much of the audience).
Flying Mint Bunny: lovingharo on September 30th, 2012 10:07 pm (UTC)
Thank you. Everyone seems to be going on about how this is the 'best end' for the companions and the 'least sad.' Perhaps it's less heartbreaking than Donna and Rose's, but it's definitely the worst end as far as where the characters are imo. They were left in a pretty terrible place, and they are also the ONLY NuWho companions that didn't even have their family in the end.

Donna may have forgotten her adventures with the Doctor, but she was still in a good place by the end of RTD's run. She was happy (and a millionaire), and we saw this. Rose became this powerful woman, was an heiress, and still got to be with the Doctor. HOW was Martha's ending remotely worse than the Ponds even ignoring the whole trapped in the 30s thing? She left on her own accord, after all.


At least they'll be in the US during WWII assumedly. Yeah Rory will probably have to serve, but they won't have to deal with BEING BOMBED AND SHIT all the time. I'M TRYING TO FIND SOME POSITIVES.
Kali: dw :: teamtardis :: trifecta of awesome_thirty2flavors on October 1st, 2012 01:27 am (UTC)
lol yeah the idea that Amy's ending is the happiest and most fulfilling for a companion is HILARIOUS to me. Amy gets to be with Rory and that's nice, yes. But she could've been with Rory in her own house with her friends and job etc. Amy is worse off for having met the Doctor, more than any other companion. Did she experience great things? Sure. But she also had her baby stolen from her, she had her ability to have other children taken from her, and now she lost the rest of her friends, her life, etc, just so she could go be with her husband, penniless and homeless in NYC. Um, okay.


(Deleted comment)
Lizbazcat89 on October 1st, 2012 01:44 am (UTC)
I fucking love this post because this shit? Annoys me as much as the OMG I WAS BORN IN THE WRONG DECADE I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BORN IN XYZ TIME I WOULDN'T HAVE HAD ANY RIGHTS BUT THE CLOTHES WERE SO CUTE~*~*~*~ and I am just like "no sit your ass down while I explain social history to your dumb ass"
Kali: dw :: doctors :: someone for everybody_thirty2flavors on October 1st, 2012 01:55 am (UTC)

One of the only thingvs I liked about Lost in Austen was how at the end, the girl who got um lost invites her roommate (Tish Jones) to come back in time with her, and Tish is like LOL ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME I AM A BLACK WOMAN AIN'T NO WAY I AM STEPPING FOOT THERE. (Also, I liked how Lizzie Bennet recognized the vast superiority of the 21st century. So it was just the heroine who was dumb as fuck.)
Hannahfirstofoct on October 1st, 2012 06:39 am (UTC)

Seriously I want to punch my friends in the face. And in my experiences, it's the ones who are in love with the Jane Austen era. GRL YOU DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE FOR ANOTHER 40 YEARS, AND ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTIVES FOR ANOTHER 80. THINK AGAIN.
Circe: accurate lizardredcirce on October 4th, 2012 04:49 am (UTC)
I agree with everything you said, but I will say maybe the one thing that now makes sense is the "Amy Williams" thing. I doubt being married but not taking your husband's name would really fly in the 1930s. And then after having used it for 50 odd years it wouldn't really make much sense to try to change it back...

I imagine Moffat envisions the 1930s like a Disney musical.
Rosa | ¯\(ºдಠ)/¯rosaxx50 on October 11th, 2012 07:56 pm (UTC)
Just finished watching.

And even regardless, he’s got 21st-century medical knowledge. Surely there’ll be a lot of tech and procedures and stuff he’s not familiar with, and even lots he probably knows are ineffectual/harmful/whatever.

This is very accurate. It might be easier for nurses than doctors, though.