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20 June 2011 @ 09:15 pm
top 5 female characters & top 5 slim and foxy ten episodes  
I. Since someone on my flist might know: David Tennant reading The Philosopher's Stone -- why does this exist and where can I find more?

II. Hmm, tbh there is not much to update about my life recently. Mostly I have been going to work and occasionally getting into wank at doctorwho and then sending links to placebetween. So here are some more top 5s:

fauxkaren wanted my Top 5 Female Characters.

Okay, this was embarrassingly hard, because while I had a couple obvious choices, I also wanted some variety, and while there are tonnes of female characters I really like there aren't many who feel ~worthy~ to be listed next to some of the other ones. It's hard for characters from things I don't fandom to compete with characters from things I do fandom -- the difference between "I think she is awesome" and "BE MY WIFE ON THE ASTRAL PLANE", I guess. I felt a bit better when I tried to think of my top 5 male characters and didn't have much luck there either.

5. Leslie Knope (Parks & Recreation)


I feel a bit weird putting Leslie in, since I've only been watching Parks & Rec for a few months, but I'm so consistently dazzled by her character and what her character represents that I figured she's earned it. When I first watched the pilot of P&R way back when it aired, I got the immediate impression she was a female Michael Scott and had zero interest in the show. When I finally was convinced to rewatch, I was pleasantly surprised to discover she's basically the anti-Michael.

Characters like Leslie -- women who are in love with their job and good at it and respected for it, not in spite of it -- are sadly hard to come by. She's not the "lead female" of the show, she is the lead. Her coworkers don't share her enthusiasm for the job, but they recognize its value and realize that they'd be doomed without her. She actually gets recognized for her success and competency at her job by the people in the show. The show pokes fun at her workaholic tendencies without making her passion out to be pathetic or desperate or ~hiding a deeper desire for marriage and babies. Leslie is a self-described feminist who follows through on those values without that being the butt of jokes. She subscribes to "ovaries before brovaries" and she's more of a Harry Potter girl. A character like that shouldn't be so hard to come by, but unfortunately it is, so I give Leslie the number 5 spot for the simple reason that we need more like her.

4. Hermione Granger (Harry Potter)

Oh, Hermione, you are the bomb. Poor Hermione is one of those characters I didn't really appreciate when reading the series but appreciate a LOT on re-reads. She was always my favourite of the Trio, but I was typically so distracted by eveything else going on in the books and all the shiny minor characters that the Trio didn't get much attention from me.

However, on rereading, it becomes unquestionable truth that Hermione Granger is a complete and total badass. The wizarding world basically owes its continued existence to Hermione Granger more than Harry Potter, because without her he would've died like half-way into first year. I love that Hermione is brilliant-er than everyone around her but it's because she has to try, and I love that her rigid allows her room to grow and also ensures that the most competent character in the novels has realistic flaws. She gets to be kickass and heroic without being unrealistically invulnerable or the "cold detached genius" archetype. She is super well-meaning but doesn't always go about her liberation quests in the best way, and basically she is the best. HERMIONE GRANGER, CLEVEREST WITCH OF HER AGE.

3, 2, & 1. Rose Tyler, Martha Jones & Donna Noble (Doctor Who)

by bussbuss

I was going to put all three of them as space number one, but I was having a hard time filling the remaining spaces, so I'll just distribute the top three spots to these three in no particular order.

Rose, Martha and Donna are basically the best. Doctor Who has a far from spotless history when it comes to female characters, and even my preferred era has the occasional fail, I think Rose, Martha and Donna are absolutely fabulous because they are absolutely real and absolutely sympathetic and complex, flawed but still ultimately good. What appeals to me in particular about these characters is their ordinariness, because finding or unleashing the extraordinary in ordinary people is a theme I really like and appreciate. As much as it is cool to be the cleverest witch of your age, be The Chosen One (not a Buffy slight, ftr, just an archetype reference) or have superpowers or whatever, I think in the long run -- or at least for me personally -- characters like Rose, Martha and Donna are more ~empowering~ because they're more real. I can imagine meeting someone like Rose, Martha or Donna, and the idea that someone from a relatively mundane background can find incredible inner strength and do amazing things is hardly groundbreaking, but I think it's resonated for so long as a concept in literature and art and storytelling because there is something uplifting and inspiring about that idea.

Besides that, all three of them are wonderful. Rose bleeds empathy and her warmth and compassion and humanity counterbalance the Doctor's initial coolness and detachment. Martha is incredibly clever and quick on the up-take and her desire to help people gives her the patience to put up with the Doctor at his worst and save the world. Donna, for all her insecurities, stands up to the Doctor and challenges him and doesn't take shit from anyone.

Anyway here is a quote from RTD that sums it up nicely:

Rose is open, honest, heartfelt, to the point of being selfish, wonderfully selfish. Martha is clever, calm, but rarely says what she’s really thinking. Donna is blunt, precise, unfiltered, but with a big heart beneath all the banter. But we come back to what I was saying ages ago about turning characters. If Rose can be selfish, then her finest moments will come when she’s selfless. If Martha keeps quiet, then her moments of revelation - like her goodbye to the Doctor in Last of the Time Lords, or [when she’s] stuck with Milo and Cheen in Gridlock - make her fly. Donna is magnificently self-centred - not selfish, but she pivots everything around herself, as we all do — so when she opens up and hears the Ood song, or begs for Caecilius’ family to be saved, then she’s wonderful.


And on an equally srs note, firstofoct wanted

Top 5 Doctor Who Episodes in terms of how attractive Ten is (lol):

LOL These sort of unintentionally became (mostly) five episodes that are greatly improved and/or watchable only due to Ten being attractive.

Runner up: Fear Her

This one earns a mention in part because I do think this is basically one of the things Fear Her has going for it, and in part because I want to horrify shinyopals. LOOK AT ALL THAT NECK, OPAL.

5. Tooth & Claw

In which the Doctor discovers layering. TBH I don't really like Tooth & Claw that much as an episode, but one of the things I do like about it is that Ten is very very pretty and also David Tennant uses a Scottish accent.

4. Smith & Jones

I cannot blame Martha for wanting to hit that so hard. Just saying.

Also, this marks the first one on the list that I genuinely enjoy as an episode.

3. The Runaway Bride

I actually love Runaway Bride, it is my favourite of the episodes in this top 5, for reasons including but not limited to things like "Ten angsts with glasses on" and "Ten takes off his jacket".

2. The Girl in the Fireplace

Literally the nicest thing I can say about GITF is that it is a very aesthetically pleasing episode. And, well, it is. Plot- and character-wise it may be basically a hot mess, but hey, swirly tie and lots of close-ups of his hands.

1. Voyage of the Damned

I actually rather enjoy VOTD -- I mean, it's not Top 10 quality, but I like it a lot more than a lot of fandom seems to. But if I am thinking critically this is probably largely because Ten wears a tux the whole time. I regret nothing.
only arceus can have a perfect blog: something old; something new.spud14 on June 21st, 2011 01:32 am (UTC)
Kali_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 01:39 am (UTC)
(no subject) - firstofoct on June 21st, 2011 01:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
Hannah: Ten; some really great hairfirstofoct on June 21st, 2011 01:38 am (UTC)
I LOVE THIS POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kali between our rewatch and this post, I am a very happy Ten fangirl. SO PRETTY.

Also, yes, A+ choices for best female characters. Leslie is awesome and deserves to be up there with those four timeless British ladies!
Kali: p&r :: more of a harry potter girl_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 01:40 am (UTC)

Omg I didn't even notice they're all British but Leslie. Good job Britain.
(no subject) - firstofoct on June 21st, 2011 01:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 01:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - firstofoct on June 21st, 2011 01:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 02:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - papilio_luna on June 21st, 2011 02:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - firstofoct on June 21st, 2011 02:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - papilio_luna on June 21st, 2011 02:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - firstofoct on June 21st, 2011 02:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - papilio_luna on June 21st, 2011 02:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - firstofoct on June 21st, 2011 02:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 02:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 2nd2ndalto on June 21st, 2011 01:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
Hannah: Ten; timelord victoriousfirstofoct on June 21st, 2011 01:49 am (UTC)
It's probably the fire. You know how he is.
(no subject) - _thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 01:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - firstofoct on June 21st, 2011 01:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 01:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - firstofoct on June 21st, 2011 01:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 02:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
demented & sad, but socialpapilio_luna on June 21st, 2011 02:11 am (UTC)
David Tennant reading The Philosopher's Stone -- why does this exist and where can I find more?

Alas and alack, that basically exists as part of his show reel, and there isn't any more.

A+ for using my dealwithit.gif, btw. And since I've got you here, lol I saw you up in that mess on doctorwho today. What was that even.
Kali: dw :: ten/rose :: ell oh ell_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 01:03 pm (UTC)
That is a tragedy.

lol I took a lot of pleasure in that post because the day before on fandomsecrets some anon was frothing about the same issue and I told them "fandom is not a job" so I would not be surprised if that and my ~pride~ in my disinterest in Classic Who inspired that mess in the first place. IN UR FANDOM, DOIN IT WRONG.
Let Them Talk: Ten's Pompadourbluetooth16 on June 21st, 2011 02:26 am (UTC)
Nice list! I'm a bit sad that my fave Ten episode in terms of his hotness was left out.
Kali: dw :: ten/rose :: no power on this earth_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 01:47 pm (UTC)
LOL Unfortunately I do not enjoy the pompadour as much as you do. TIL would be up there if I was ranking episodes for Rose though.
sherrilina: Harry/Hermione (HP)sherrilina on June 21st, 2011 02:36 am (UTC)
Oooh DT HP reading, thanks for sharing! <33 He sounds better than Fry's version from that excerpt, more like Jim Dale's US version...

And Hermione! ♥ Best ever in that book, and so true re: Harry being killed in book 1, lol. (That whole series is so ridic though in terms of the final battle, I can't think of another series where the hero vanquishes evil in the end purely through shit dumb luck, like happening to have grabbed Malfoy's wand, and Malfoy happening to have grabbed Dumbledore's wand earlier).

Also very much appreciate all the Ten pretty! :D Especially agree on T&C...and to think I at first thought that he was faking the accent there!

Has realized how much better life is since removing notifs for doctorwho

OH and yay for VOTD love, I've never understood the hate for that one, it's far from the worse special (esp. compared to TND), maybe because Titanic is one of my fave movies and this was basically the DW version...but also loved the whole "everyone leaves London at Christmas this year" schtick, lmao. And Donna's gramps! :D

Edited at 2011-06-21 02:42 am (UTC)
Kali: dw :: ten :: i love that coat_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 01:53 pm (UTC)
I have not really heard either version and tbh audiobooks aren't my thing, but I don't think I could resist the idea of David Tennant reading Harry Potter. It's too bad there isn't more.

Hermione is awesome.

When I first saw Tooth & Claw I had no idea he was Scottish either, which tbh made the whole thing a little lulzy, like why would Ten suddenly feel it was neccessary to do a Scottish accent just beacuse they happen to be in Scotland... lirl.

rofl I've been getting into it at doctorwho lately. I don't know why. It's a bad idea, honestly, but lately I've just been feeling combatative.

VOTD is basically Poseidon: in SPACE! I don't think it's particularly GOOD, but I find it enjoyable enough, and I think Astrid is cute and the secondary characters are likable. Plus, the tux. I can't argue with the tux.
fauxkarenfauxkaren on June 21st, 2011 02:40 am (UTC)
I actually rather enjoy VOTD -- I mean, it's not Top 10 quality, but I like it a lot more than a lot of fandom seems to.
Also, it is better than the OTHER VOTD of which we shall not speak.

I do love your list of top 5 female characters. Leslie is wonderful for all of the reasons you mentioned. One of the things that I love about her is her relationship with Anne. It's so nice seeing a female friendship being portrayed like that. Idk. They just feel real and refreshing.

And yeah, Hermione is my favorite character in HP. lol. I overidentified with her as a teenager and I will love her always.

AND OF COURSE, ROSE, MARTHA AND DONNA ARE ALL BRILLIANT. I love that they aren't super heroes. They are just normal people (flaws and all!) who do extraordinary things.
Kali: p&r :: more of a harry potter girl_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 01:56 pm (UTC)
Omg, Other VOTD is so terrible noooooooooo

Leslie's relationship with Ann is great, though I often feel like I missed how it got started. I generally blame it on s1's rockiness and move on, lirl. The Fight episode was so amazing though!

I appreciate Hermione so much more now, like I said. She's great.

proudly hosted on photobucket: [dw] the pink and yellow girlcloudydaise on June 21st, 2011 02:58 am (UTC)
I was gonna get all butthurt about Tooth & Claw being on there because I love that episode but then I thought about it and realized the main reason I love that episode is because Ten wears like ten shirts and talks in a Scottish accent. (Well, and the flirty Ten/Rose stuff but that's a given. Even horrible episodes are slightly redeemed by that, lol.)
Kali_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 01:58 pm (UTC)
LOL Well my list wasn't MEANT to be 5 bad episodes, it just happened that after I came up with 5 (well, 6), I realized most of them were pretty weak.

I watched Tooth and Claw last night and it's not awful, but I don't love it so much either. Also, I hate the way fandom talks about it, and rewatching only confirmed for me that I just do not think Ten and Rose were insensitive. Rose has ONE remark during shit-getting-real that, yes, is insensitive, and she is mollified instantly when Victoria chastises her. THAT IS ALL. People act like they were pointing and laughing at corpses, jfc.
Lizbazcat89 on June 21st, 2011 03:17 am (UTC)
The wizarding world basically owes its continued existence to Hermione Granger more than Harry Potter, because without her he would've died like half-way into first year.
Yup. She basically spends the seventh book running around pulling Harry and Ron out of collapsing buildings. It's great.

Flawless list.
Kali: to :: pam :: i feel god in this chili's_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 02:18 pm (UTC)
lol so true. THE WHOLE GODRIC'S HOLLOW SHOWDOWN OMG Harry what the fuck.

ty bb

I hope you understand Pam's absence not as a slight because she belongs to the "females I think are really awesoem" category, just not the "wife on the astral plane" category. which tbh leslie isn't really either but Leslie is like ~iconic~ and her placement is more political
(no subject) - bazcat89 on June 21st, 2011 02:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 02:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bazcat89 on June 21st, 2011 02:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Frances: DW - Ten - Doctor is in!goldy_dollar on June 21st, 2011 03:52 am (UTC)
Leslie Knope is such a good choice. Parks & Rec might be one of my favourite sitcoms airing right now and most of that is because Leslie is the main character and she is the best.

I actually rather enjoy VOTD -- I mean, it's not Top 10 quality, but I like it a lot more than a lot of fandom seems to. But if I am thinking critically this is probably largely because Ten wears a tux the whole time. I regret nothing.

Voyage of the Damned \o/ YOUR WHOLE LIST IS FLAWLESS BUT THIS IS MY FAVOURITE ADD ON. Ten looks so fine in that tux and whatever, I love VOTD, I am not ashamed.
Kali: p&r :: quick! to altavista!_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 02:22 pm (UTC)
Leslie is amazing. I think the fact that I expected to hate her makes my love that much stronger. Parks & Rec is clearly right in the middle of its golden era and will probably collapse in failure in the next 2-ish years BUT WHATEVER right now it is flawless. I hope it gets Emmy recognition since it has more of a chance than any other show I watch lirl.

When Hannah gave me that prompt my like first thought was "obviously VOTD has to be number 1". Who even cares about the rest of it, he wears a tux and unties his bowtie.

Austinjohnmayergirl23 on June 21st, 2011 01:41 pm (UTC)
don't mind me, I'm busy agreeing with EVERY POINT

leslie knope = amazing. i've only seen the first season (shame) but still, i adore her. i really have to finish that show.

Kali: dw :: ten :: brainy specs_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 02:26 pm (UTC)
You really should because Parks and Rec gets SO much better, s1 is pretty lame tbh and Leslie does not blossom to her full awesomeness until later. Plus the truncated third season is flawless.

Runaway Bride is so amazing in every way. ILU Runaway Bride. I don't actually have any icons of Ten in TRB right now? CRAZINESS I used to have like a trillion of the roof scene alone.
ladysophiekitty: Doctor Tuxladysophiekitty on June 21st, 2011 03:59 pm (UTC)


I don't know what I like more. With his bow tie all there and shiny, or undone and hanging off his neck. (I have a feeling it's the second one)
Kali: dw :: ten :: bowties are cool_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 06:04 pm (UTC)
Ten/Tux OTP 4lyfe omg. I am sad we only got it, what, three times? S4 this is the only area in which you have failed me.

I definitely prefer the second one. I don't know why I have a thing about untied (bow)ties but I sure do.
kilodalton: donna ten drinkkilodalton on June 21st, 2011 06:24 pm (UTC)

1) Nice lists! =D
2) I love that RTD calls Rose wonderfully selfish. Some people are like "RTD even said she was selfish!!!" without prefacing it with the "wonderfully" --- clearly he didn't mean it like "ugh! She's selfish and she sucks!!"
3) LOL GITF. Yes he is pretty. The bottom-right pic reminds me. I was reading a transcript where it says in that scene that when he smiles and tries to look ...happy? in that scene, his smile "doesn't reach his eyes" because he's trying to act like everything's OK, but she knows it's not, which is why she leads him back to the fireplace. Lol I don't like that ep so I've never gone back to see for myself ... but it's interesting, in the cap you used, his smile does look a little ... non-manic-Ten-ish.
4) I find it interesting that RTD makes a distinction between "selfish" and "self-centered." I'm not so sure I do ... and lol ngl, I'm not so sure I know what he means. But, hey I'll roll with it! =D
Kali: dw :: donna :: the final sacrifice_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 06:33 pm (UTC)
I think Rose is "wonderfully selfish" as well. Rose is mostly selfish in ways that girls aren't allowed to be selfish -- she makes decisions based on what she wants, not on what will make her mom or her boyfriend happiest.

LOL I have no idea, I haven't seen GITF in forever and I just grabbed the caps from some site. It is up next on my rewatch (hurrah...) so I guess I'll look for it, LIRL.

I think it's the difference between being selfish and being kind of narrowminded, or unintentionally xenophobic, or whatever. I mean, obviously not that Donna's a terrible person, but I think.... well, I would say the difference is doing things specifically for yourself (like Rose leaving her family to travel with the Doctor) versus seeing things in terms of how it directly affects you and maybe the people closest to you rather than the big-picture aspect.
(no subject) - kilodalton on June 21st, 2011 09:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _thirty2flavors on June 22nd, 2011 12:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kilodalton on June 26th, 2011 03:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
Opal: Promo: Martha Rose & Donnashinyopals on June 21st, 2011 07:57 pm (UTC)

Kali_thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 08:05 pm (UTC)

(no subject) - shinyopals on June 21st, 2011 08:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 08:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shinyopals on June 21st, 2011 08:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _thirty2flavors on June 21st, 2011 08:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
doctahr: Oh Yesdoctahr on June 25th, 2011 11:04 pm (UTC)
I love this list!

I've never watched Parks and Rec, but Harry Potter is good and Doctor Who is the greatest show ever made.

Hermione is a bad-ass, and I think I (rather biased-ly) love her moreseeing as hermione is one of my main nicknames at school. (Because my dad's a Brit so I pronounce some words with an accent, and I look a wee bit like her.)

Rose is my favorite character ever, so that's a win.

Donna is hilarious and awesome.

Martha is growing on me.

Fear her was also fantastic because of all the fluff. :D
Also, Ten looks so attractive in the tie scene of S&J. :D :D :D