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katarik's fault. She wrote: Somewhere in gotham, there is a church of the joker.


Below, a mix-and-match composite of what we wrote about it, in a very Deleuze-Guattari sort of way. Warning: No real religions were implied or slighted in the text below, and we (well I; Kat knows what she speaks of, unlike me) played rather freely with theological terms. Request: Mr. J, please don't kill us.

The Gnostic Church of the Holy Laughter gets wiped out every time he breaks from Arkham, but another branch forms spontaneously a week or so afterward. It's one of the things that make Bruce hate Gotham almost as much as he loves it.

Jason attended a service there once. Then he blew the church up. Now they put up a cycle of paintings in every church.

Red Hood dies; Joker is born. Joker kills Robin; Red Hood is born.

It's perhaps their most profound mystery. Life and death, one from the other in an endless cycle never quite the same.

They believe the only way to escape it is to go mad. Joker is a sort of Buddha, his merry killings proof and tale of the unimportance of the material world, his madness a breaking up from the bonds of logic. One day the Shadow of Order will kill the Joker. There'll be a period of calm and error, and then Gotham will burn forever, and they will all be free.


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( 29 comments — Leave a comment )
razorsmile
Jun. 1st, 2007 06:16 pm (UTC)
If only Grant Morrison could chat with katarik; this is so far up his alley it can see daylight.
__marcelo
Jun. 1st, 2007 06:32 pm (UTC)
I'd pay good money to get DC writers to chat with her. I don't have it, but I'd be willing to get into debt for this.
ratcreature
Jun. 1st, 2007 06:41 pm (UTC)
They should do this. In an Elseworld at least. I mean, they had wackier and more disturbing cults in Gotham Elseworlds.
__marcelo
Jun. 1st, 2007 06:49 pm (UTC)
*nods* I'd love to see something like that.

Heck, now I'm wondering if there isn't already...
rubynye
Jun. 1st, 2007 06:49 pm (UTC)
Oh, GOTHAM. You keep tempting me to list Gotham as a character on the DCFic Index, you know.

As a child of New York City, I believe this with all my heart.

__marcelo
Jun. 1st, 2007 06:55 pm (UTC)
Oh, GOTHAM. You keep tempting me to list Gotham as a character on the DCFic Index, you know.

She should be, I think. *g*

As a child of New York City, I believe this with all my heart. *beams*
cmshaw
Jun. 1st, 2007 07:20 pm (UTC)
...you mean this isn't true? *shakes head*
__marcelo
Jun. 1st, 2007 07:50 pm (UTC)
Any city that still keeps Arkham around *has* to have more than a few screws loose.
petronelle
Jun. 1st, 2007 08:13 pm (UTC)
I'm with you on this one.

I hope it's not true, but I'm not sure it's not.
__marcelo
Jun. 1st, 2007 09:12 pm (UTC)
It must be hard for a society to make sense of everything that keeps happening to Gotham. The Gang Wars. NML. Nuclear bomb scares, plagues.

And Arkham, just sitting there like a bad joke you have to keep hearing again and again.
boredom_doodles
Jun. 1st, 2007 08:18 pm (UTC)
It's things like this, that so very clearly must exist, regardless of canon's opinion on matters, that make me a little mystified that Gotham managed to survive long enough for Booster to be born and grow up there some 400-odd years later.

*Reads again*

OK, maybe more than a little mystified. *Shudders*
__marcelo
Jun. 1st, 2007 09:10 pm (UTC)
Now, that's a very good question.
chalcopyrite
Jun. 1st, 2007 08:24 pm (UTC)
::tilts head:: I . . . want to see this. On paper, I mean. I can see it quite clearly in my head. It occurs to me that I should perhaps be worried by this.

then Gotham will burn forever, and they will all be free.

You already have "Take over the world" on your collective to-do list, right?
__marcelo
Jun. 1st, 2007 09:06 pm (UTC)
You already have "Take over the world" on your collective to-do list, right?

There's a actually a variant of this in my PDA.

*makes a "I realize I'm not playing with a full deck" face*
chalcopyrite
Jun. 1st, 2007 11:45 pm (UTC)
There's a actually a variant of this in my PDA.

Well, it isn't the sort of thing you want to forget to get around to.
__marcelo
Jun. 2nd, 2007 12:43 am (UTC)
Also, it's important to have goals that motivate you.
brown_betty
Jun. 1st, 2007 08:57 pm (UTC)
I think that they believe there to be higher and lower forms of madness; the goal is to achieve the highest, which brings with it a sort of freeing of the self from reality, and immunity to the madness the world calls sanity.

Yes. Very vivid and true feeling.
__marcelo
Jun. 1st, 2007 09:08 pm (UTC)
I think that they believe there to be higher and lower forms of madness; the goal is to achieve the highest, which brings with it a sort of freeing of the self from reality, and immunity to the madness the world calls sanity.

*nods a lot* There's the madness of despair, and the madness of freedom. The madness of a broken mind, and the madness of a mind truly free.

There's Batman, and there's the Joker.
daybreak25
Jun. 1st, 2007 09:13 pm (UTC)
Oh, this is delightfully scary. It makes me want to turn this into a series, but the world isn't ready for that, I think.

It's perhaps their most profound mystery. Life and death, one from the other in an endless cycle never quite the same.


Oh, Gotham, how mad you truly are. ::beams::
__marcelo
Jun. 1st, 2007 10:21 pm (UTC)
I'd *love* to read that series!
sockich
Jun. 2nd, 2007 10:34 am (UTC)
Huh. You know, reading this post made me realize that we've never actually seen a church of the Joker in canon. For some reason, it's one of those things I never really thought about, but now I'm totally surprised that it's not actually there.

...uh, yeah, that makes no sense, does it? *g*

The Gnostic Church of the Holy Laughter gets wiped out every time he breaks from Arkham

This shouldn't me me laugh. It does anyway.

Oh, Gotham. ♥
__marcelo
Jun. 2nd, 2007 12:35 pm (UTC)
This shouldn't me me laugh. It does anyway. Me too! Gotham is not a forgiving environment for idiots, but the supply is always big enough to keep the numbers up.
caiusmajor
Jun. 2nd, 2007 11:11 pm (UTC)
I feel laughter is a very *appropriate* response to this one. In a terrifying sort of way.

*laughs* Oh Gotham.

Presumably being killed by the Joker is part of the *point*. For the faithful, that is.
__marcelo
Jun. 3rd, 2007 08:18 pm (UTC)
Presumably being killed by the Joker is part of the *point*. For the faithful, that is. *laughs* It's a very laid-back cult. Just go about your business in Gotham, and there's a rather good chance that sooner or later you'll be saved.
nokomis305
Jun. 7th, 2007 06:52 pm (UTC)
You know, this idea wouldn't be half so scary if it didn't make such perfect, crystalline sense. Of course this would happen in Gotham, which just sort of breeds the sort of people who could devote themselves to a church founded on madness and mayhem.
__marcelo
Jun. 7th, 2007 06:54 pm (UTC)
Of course this would happen in Gotham, which just sort of breeds the sort of people who could devote themselves to a church founded on madness and mayhem.

*nods* Very much so. There's something in Gotham, canonically, that gives it its own logic, that makes the Batman (and, even more uniquely, Robin) make sense.
(Deleted comment)
__marcelo
Jun. 8th, 2007 03:48 am (UTC)
*nods* It has its own rythms, in a meta sense.
dessieoctavia
Dec. 3rd, 2007 09:14 pm (UTC)
What's scary is, this actually makes sense.
__marcelo
Dec. 4th, 2007 12:53 am (UTC)
Gotham is scary in that way, too.
( 29 comments — Leave a comment )

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