Danny Cowan, Press ([info]sardius_) wrote,

on classics compilations

It's really awesome when you look through the listings at Gamerankings and come across something like this. Man, who's the asshole who gave that game a 2 out of 5?

Oh.

I'm surprised that everyone else gave the game 70% or above, though, because some of those reviews are just as critical as mine. I can pretty much agree with everything this guy says, for example, up until his last paragraph anyway. According to him, some of the games in the compilation are repetitive and boring (Knights of the Round, King of Dragons), some are terrible and have no reason to waste space on the disc (Avengers, Street Fighter), and at least one is just plain unplayable because of twitchy controls (Block Block).

By my count, he says that 11 of the 20 games in the collection are either bad, boring, unplayable, or "nothing special", which for all practical purposes translates into "most people are going to play this for three minutes and then never touch it again."

So why did he give it a score of 7.5?

Game selection isn't the only issue with Capcom Classics Collection Vol. 2 -- the bonus extras are lame, the setup screens glitch out sometimes, and Strider uses a bad romset so half the music never plays -- but why would you recommend a collection when you hate half of its games? Sure, Strider and Black Tiger are awesome, but when you're paying $20 for a problematic emulator on a disc, I expect more actual good games than barely-playable filler.

Inflated scores have been a problem with classic compilation reviews in the past, but the issue has never been so prominent as it is with CCC2. The same thing is currently happening with the Sega Genesis Collection, which in spite of having some really glaring emulation issues, is getting mostly positive scores from critics who claim that the included games are all "perfectly emulated," and "100% faithful to the originals."

What I think is happening is that these games are consistently being assigned to people who are unfamiliar with the source material. It's not like you can blame them when these collections are full of smash hits like Block Block and Avengers, but if you've never played the original versions of these games, how are you going to know which ones are emulated properly? For that matter, how would you know which ones are genuine classics, as opposed to filler?

When you assign these reviews to people who are unfamiliar with the original games and the gaming culture of the time, the result is going to be a 7 or 8 out of 10 every single time. These people do not care about emulation accuracy, nor apparently do they care if half the collection is garbage. They see a $20 price tag, a few good games, and several "forgotten classics"...which, in other words, are titles that they absolutely hate, but dare not criticize lest they appear ignorant for slandering something popular.

This is not to say that every 7 or 8-out-of-10 CCC2 review on Gamerankings is bad -- I agree with a lot of their points, and the collection could be worth $20 if you REALLY like a few of the games it includes. I'd just like to see more informed reviews of these collections, is all. I want to see these reviews written by people who have played at least some of the included games on their original hardware, or at least have experience with playing them on more accurate freeware emulators. I want to hear from people who are not afraid to call a 15-year-old game "bad" as opposed to a "forgotten classic."

It'd be nice for critics to offer some actual criticism, I guess is what I'm trying to say. It'd keep me from looking like such an asshole all the time.

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  • 30 comments

[info]rorita

December 1 2006, 21:32:50 UTC 5 years ago

Sweet! I suck!

[info]sardius_

December 1 2006, 21:38:25 UTC 5 years ago

You are why I added the part about not every review being bad!

Things were not supposed to happen this way!

[info]sardius_

December 1 2006, 21:42:59 UTC 5 years ago

Besides, you had some major hate going on for Avengers, which I can totally get behind.

[info]stolisomancer

December 1 2006, 21:55:50 UTC 5 years ago

Hey, you triggered the Parish mocking self-hatred reaction. Nice.

[info]rorita

5 years ago

[info]darktetsuya

December 1 2006, 21:42:00 UTC 5 years ago

It could've been worse...

CCC2 could've been developed by those morons at Atomic Planet "Hey, the A button's bigger, let's make that the jump button! GENIUS!"

That and I can totally tell none of the games (at least the NES ones) were emulated. They just didn't feel like it.

[info]darktetsuya

December 1 2006, 21:43:26 UTC 5 years ago

Re: It could've been worse...

er... "Fire" not "Jump" ... it's still ass-backwards

[info]masterhibb

December 1 2006, 21:42:04 UTC 5 years ago

Man, I remember Knights of the Round being so good back in the day. I mean it was knights, and they had armor and stuff.

In retrospect, I can see how the Final Fight-style brawler may be seen as boring and repetitive nowadays. But back in the heyday of the arcade, I remember I couldn't get enough of it.

I'm actually somewhat surprised your beef is with people reviewing the titles who haven't played the game before. If I picked that up and started playing Knights, I doubt I would call it boring, even though it probably is. I would call it "wonderfully nostalgic," and wax poetic about how it "hearkens back to a simpler time in video gaming," which I would likely spend the rest of the article lamenting. I would think a n00b would be more likely to view these nostalgia packs with more objectivity, disregarding, of course, emulation issues.

I guess they just can't give it a lower score because, like you said, they're pussies.

[info]darktetsuya

December 1 2006, 21:48:03 UTC 5 years ago

Well I picked up the first one, even though 3 slots were wasted on SF2 (thankfully they didn't give them to us again, but instead opted for SSF2T and SF1.) As for the other games, both KotR and Black Tiger were my personal faves back in the day, so having them on a home console would be awesome.

[info]masterhibb

December 1 2006, 22:08:43 UTC 5 years ago

Playing Black Tiger on a home console strikes me as the only way to play that game. If I remember correctly, that was one that was pretty bad about eating quarters.

As for Street Fighter, I doubt there's a more milked series in gaming (except, of course, Star Wars). If they're giving you any SF2 other than SSF2T, they're not giving you the full game. Though they probably will later, and charge you for it.

Although, I suppose we should at least be greatful it's Capcom, and not EA. If it were EA, SF2 would come with Blanka and E. Honda, and you would have to download the rest of the characters--for a small fee.

[info]masterhibb

5 years ago

[info]masterhibb

5 years ago

[info]stolisomancer

December 1 2006, 21:57:38 UTC 5 years ago

Yeah, these retro compliations are harder to review than you'd think. If you've played the games, you're not so much reviewing them as you're reviewing the summer of the year, and if you haven't, you're reviewing a bunch of obsolete titles that somebody, somewhere, is obsesed with.

It's one of those wacky old games-journalism-lol catch-22s they don't tell you about before you start doing it.

[info]masterhibb

December 1 2006, 22:12:17 UTC 5 years ago

I guess you can take heart in the fact that there's probably no one basing their purchasing decisions on your review, though. I mean, people buy the compilations either because they recognize a few of the titles, or because they want something to shut their kids up and stop at "20 in 1!"

So yeah, I guess forget what I said in my comment above. Sardius probably has it right that the reviewers should cover technical flaws in more detail so people who do remember the games know if they bastardized them or not. Guess that's why he's a game journo, and I'm not.

[info]kiken

December 1 2006, 22:18:21 UTC 5 years ago

One of the biggest problems that I personally have with the 2 CCC discs is the fact that there is no Tate for vertical screen oriented games. Trying to play 1941 in piddly-yoko-vision is NOT arcade perfection, nor is it a productive way to play these games.

As is, $20 for an ok homeport of ECO Fighters was worth it. Too bad DE weren't bright enough to figure out that Shot and Rapid Fire need to be mapable as individual buttons.

[info]rorita

December 2 2006, 00:21:22 UTC 5 years ago

The PSP Capcom collections are much better than the PS2s, and the inclusion of a sort of tate mode for shooters is only one reason.

(The drawback, of course, is that you have to play them on PSP.)

[info]arnoldrimmer83

December 3 2006, 09:44:46 UTC 5 years ago

So the PSP versions are better emulated than the PS2 compilations? Huh. Between that and the Konami shooter packs being released, I'm almost crazy enough to believe that someone at Capcom (Or Digital Eclipse) and Konami really hates me.

[info]bbh

December 1 2006, 23:41:07 UTC 5 years ago

from what I hear the fighting game fatties really dig the Super Turbo port, and supposedly the tutorial videos for it are actually really informative.

If it was a decade ago when I didn't know anything about emulators, I would have paid $20 just for Black Tiger. Fucking love that game to death. I've played it out a bit now, but I think it's great that the game's finally been included in a classics collection, I'd always wanted one ever since I saw a preview of an NES version in Game Player's or something, but that was cancelled. They probably would have changed everything like they did with Capcom's other NES "ports" though...

I don't think anybody likes Avengers. I think Capcom's line of reasoning for including it was to trick people into thinking it was Data East's Captain America & the Avengers, so then when people fork over the money Capcom's all like "FOOLED YOU LOLZ!!!!"

[info]darktetsuya

December 2 2006, 00:18:57 UTC 5 years ago

I mentioned there was a preview for an NES version of BT, but that's all I ever heard of it was some magazine scans.

And CCC2 includes tutorial vids for Super Turbo? Awesome. I wanna learn how Daigo does all that crazy combo stuff with Balrog, that's insane.

[info]kap_

December 2 2006, 01:50:57 UTC 5 years ago

This is the kind of thing I want to read on actual gaming site instead of reviewers just sucking publishers' and eachother's dicks.

[info]smeg_

December 2 2006, 02:51:13 UTC 5 years ago

hurp hurp hurp

[info]grunzen

December 5 2006, 05:19:13 UTC 5 years ago

But will you ever see another review copy if you don't?

[info]kiken

December 2 2006, 18:30:22 UTC 5 years ago

I can pretty much agree with everything this guy says, for example, up until his last paragraph anyway.

Well, you mean aside from stuff like this?:

"Ladies and gentlemen, if I’m not mistaken, I do believe that this is the first time the original Street Fighter has ever been available to play on a home console.

He's certainly mistaken.

Anyhow, after reading through your post again, I'd just like to say that I'd love to see more stuff like this written for HCGM. Seriously, it was an interesting read.

[info]arnoldrimmer83

December 3 2006, 09:31:17 UTC 5 years ago

Figures you'd make this entry so soon after I already purchased the thing. I was enjoying it, and then you just had to start bringing the collection's faults right up. :P

In all seriousness you make some very good points. Compilations in general seem to be pretty hard to give fair reviews too. I guess for most people its hard to form a blance between judging a game from earlier eras to the present. That's certainly a problem for me, but then I've always seemed to have a fairly high tolerance for older stuff, thus I've been genuinely enjoying most of the games on this collection.

I am a little curious about the set up screen glitch you mention. I've been playing this game for awhile now and I never noticed anything amiss with the set up screens. What happens exactly? Also its been awhile since I've played Strider on Mame, but I don't quite remember the dialog being that badly out of synch with the graphics in the first cutscene. (The one you get after finishing the first level.)

[info]sardius_

December 10 2006, 06:34:15 UTC 5 years ago

Oh, don't let what I said get in the way of you enjoying it or anything. I can see it being fun for awhile, and really, it's not a horrible way to spend $20. It's just the little things that Digital Eclipse messes up that I get hung up on.

The setup screen glitch happens sometimes when you go to set the game options (lives, difficulty, etc.) in the middle of a game. The cursor will sometimes highlight blank space instead of the options on the screen, making it hard to see what you're doing.

Again, just little things like that add up for me. Using the bad Strider roms is pretty much unforgivable though. The level one music plays through almost the entire game!

[info]xkeeper

December 4 2006, 11:26:25 UTC 5 years ago

It seems like compilations should be two-player reviews.

1P, who has played at least most of the compilation games
- Overall emulation/port quality
- Bonus features or lack thereof

2P, who hasn't
- "Is it still worth buying today" factor
- "Were these games even worth padding" etc

Because, unfortunately, anyone who has played these games before will likely score it high in at least the "still worth buying" and "good games" category, thanks to nostalagic bias, and anyone who hasn't played the games before can't make a reliable estimate of how well they're emulated.

[info]grunzen

December 5 2006, 05:18:33 UTC 5 years ago

Man you love to hate on collections, and I love to read you hate on them.

[info]faces_of_janus

December 5 2006, 11:32:12 UTC 5 years ago

This was a great thread to read.

There's a funny, almost back-handed compliment in making compilations. To do so means picking a few games that you think are better than most of the rest, but then you also say to people that no one would play these games unless they were bundled with a bunch of other games.

Furthermore, the developers treat them as if you will only play the games a handful of times and never touch them again, which I guess most people do, and so the games get shitty porting treatment a lot of the time. This has other knock-on effects too, like the fact that action games are hugely over-represented while other genres like RPGs virtually never get included.

As a parting comment, it is the lot of most reviewers to be wishy-washy, sadly. No one gets too mad if you give a lukewarm review and then they end up getting a strong feeling either way, but people get really mad if you're on the other end of the spectrum from them. When you've got advertisers paying your bills, it's also easier to be kinder than you should be. Finally, the more you see really bad/really good stuff, the easier it is to lump stuff in the undifferentiated middle. (And in the average reviewer's defense, a lot of stuff out there *is* genuinely mediocre.)

I think the biggest reason for limp reviewing, though, is that you really have to defend a strongly positive/negative score; it's much easier to just cop out and compromise. I think a lot of reviewers just get lazy after a while and only want to avoid controversy or losing advertisers. I don't know which is worst: the wishy-washy reviewer, the overly harsh reviewer (EIGHT-POINT-FIVE), or the overly kind reviewer (Roger Ebert in his later years). They all pretty much suck, which just goes to show what a terrible tightrope it is to walk as a reviewer, and how you have to fight complacency and laziness pretty much constantly to be any good.

And it's even worse than that; sheer avoidance of complacency and laziness will only lead one to lack of mediocrity, and there's a huge difference between that and truly good reviewing. Having a strong point of view doesn't mean that it's fair or well-considered. I have great empathy for the paid reviewer, who even with the best of skills, motivation, environment, and audience can only hope not to anger large chunks of his customers incessantly. It's a difficult, thankless job, and it gives me more and more respect for IGN every day, despite the nasty nasty things my friends are always saying about them. God bless the good reviewer, for he shall inherit the earth. :)
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