m0na_ ([info]m0na_) wrote,
@ 2008-04-15 09:33:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend  Next Entry
Entry tags:metaphysics

God Speculation
The premise: The concept of God is ridiculous because people claim that everything was created by something much more complex than us that we can’t understand…but then that would necessitate something even more complex creating that “God,” and you have this fantastic chain of “Creators of Creators.” Well, I’m not going to lie. That is quite ridiculous.

Michael relayed to me a concept embodied in the phrase “Ground of Being,” basically stating that everything more complex was built up from simpler things, down to energy and whatever is even more foundational than that. Instead of a most complex creature, we have the “Ground of Being,” the most foundational condition of reality. So he’d say something like, “I don’t thank God for creating me…I give thanks to the Ground of Being for giving me Being.”

WELL…you know what? I would say “yes, right on.” Why? Because the Baha'i writings don’t define God as some more complex creature; rather, God is the “Divine and Invisible Essence,” the “Preexistent Reality.”

“Preexistent Reality” and “Ground of Being.” Think about it! Both imply a sort of foundation of existence. And, as in my previous speculation, I will carry forth the point that whatever you may call the foundation of existence, on which all existence depends, it must of a certainty encompass all possibility.

In other words, that which is more foundational encompasses the possibilities of whatsoever complex manifestations are derived from it. To specify is to define, and to define is to limit. Hence, the foundation of all being is the most undefined and the most limitless.

(The concept of “tree” is unspecific, and yet it is the foundation for every species of tree in existence. When you don’t define what kind of tree it is, the possibilities are all there.)

Seeing as we have existence, it follows that whatever we call the “foundation of all existence” has the power to bring concepts and possibilities into reality.

I have heard expressed the thought that whatever the power of the universe is that governs the laws of nature and ties everything together, it is definitely not in the form of an individual, a.k.a. a “Personal God.”

But of course!!! The foundation of all being cannot be contained within the limits of a human concept of individuality, personality. These are too limiting and specific. A word on limitlessness as revealed in Islam…

"No vision taketh in Him, but He taketh in all vision; He is the Subtile, the All-Perceiving."[1] [1 Qur'án 6:103.] (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 98)

Anyway, I’m turning it around now. Whereas God is not limited to a specific Person, I must say that as the Preexistent Reality, God must definitely encompass both the impersonal and the personal. Just because the limit, the confinement is absent, does not mean that God is incapable of understanding and possessing personality. Setting aside the connotations of personality as we know it, we can still say that the Preexistent reality is a unified entity (!) that is the foundation of infinite forms.

AND, if God chooses to relate to us in the form of a Divine Personality, even though His/Its essence is foundational beyond (or poetically speaking “exalted above) such attributes, it’s a good thing, for the sake of our own comprehension. I’ve quoted this before but I’ll do it again:

O SON OF BEAUTY!
By My spirit and by My favor! By My mercy and by My beauty! All that I have revealed unto thee with the tongue of power, and have written for thee with the pen of might, hath been in accordance with thy capacity and understanding, not with My state and the melody of My voice. (Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

Um…no further explanation required.

One more thought:

Materialists will assert that consciousness itself depends on the physical form of the brain and its specific electrochemical activity.  I will say that this form is necessary in order to attract the power of consciousness to a point in the physical world, thereby binding it to a specific time, place and individualized frame of reference.

While writing this I did a search in Ocean for “Preexistent.” I’m delighted right now to find that the inklings of my speculation are exponentially developed in the writings of Abdu'l-Bahá, in parts of “Some Answered Questions” that I never got around to reading in my adult life. (If I saw these passages before, at age 12 when I first explored the book, suffice it to say that they went over my head and I lost interest).

Life beckons and I will end this for now. Suffice it to say, I will be reading more from Some Answered Questions in the near future and will probably have more to say about it soon…

With love,
Mona




(6 comments) - (Post a new comment)

but what about
[info]nabil1030
2008-04-15 10:01 pm UTC (link)
Ok, good. You've clarified an understanding of God's existence, as well as His unknowable and all-powerful nature. Your argument is convincing and accessible. But how is the range of possible systems limited to explain the Manifestation paradigm?
Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: "Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise." He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person. Gleanings, no. 20
So the Manifestation adduces the proof of His Person, but how do we adduce a convincing proof to those who may scoff at the last line as mere hand-waving? those who find it another arbitrary concoction? Do we just say, "Seriously, see for yourself," and share some Word? Just write off those with inherited obstacles to understanding the proof as not receptive?

(Reply to this)

um
[info]m0na_
2008-04-16 01:36 am UTC (link)
I'd frame it more as a conceptual clarification than a "convincing argument."

As for the question of Baha'u'llah saying to look to "His own Person" as a testimony to the truth of His Mission, it's simply an invitation to investigate His claim by examining His life, character, words and actions and their effects/consequences. If someone sees that as "hand waving" or an "arbitrary concoction" (eh?), you could explain why that doesn't make sense, and if someone (furthermore) just doesn't want to look into it, then by definition they're not receptive to the idea of investigating the Faith, and you have to respect that and let it be.

As for "inherited obstacles to understanding the proof," I mean, everyone comes to the table with a different perspective, and some perspectives include a lot of harsh prejudice, and some of that might be inherited. But in the end it's up to each individual whether or not to investigate Baha'u'llah with an open mind.

Some Answered Questions also does a marvelous job of explaining "the Manifestation paradigm" :)

(Reply to this)


[info]siberianveggies
2008-04-17 02:50 am UTC (link)
Simplicity is beautiful :)

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2008-04-21 12:17 pm UTC (link)
Well played, love. :-)

- Bahiyyih

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2008-04-29 08:41 pm UTC (link)
I like your God speculations. I started writing a comment this morning at work, but then it ended up turning into more of an essay...you know how I am.

I will send it to you in a msg on facebook when I'm done.

(Reply to this)

consciousness
(Anonymous)
2008-04-29 08:43 pm UTC (link)
Oh yeah, I will say this part since its separate from the other things I wrote.

"Materialists will assert that consciousness itself depends on the physical form of the brain and its specific electrochemical activity. I will say that this form is necessary in order to attract the power of consciousness to a point in the physical world, thereby binding it to a specific time, place and individualized frame of reference."

At this time there is insufficient evidence to determine whether the materialist hypothesis or the one you presented is the correct one. I am confident though that some day the seal on that scroll shall be broken.

--Michael

(Reply to this)


(6 comments) - (Post a new comment)

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…