29 September 2012 @ 05:50 pm
7x05 the muppets take manhattan  
lol my internet died just after I finished streaming so I started writing this post and it got huge


k first up watching this was such a hassle, the streams were so slow and then my mom started yelling at me during the graveyard scene and then when I got back my stream had abruptly stopped working and I had to wrestle with a new one and ugh. Anyway so I am sure that detracted from the ~dramatic effect to some degree but

basically I was right about everything. River wrote the book, which got them into the mystery, Rory got zapped and couldn’t be saved with the TARDIS because reasons, Amy sees Rory die, Amy decides to go back into the past to be with Rory, their final interaction is a letter Amy writes that he reads after she’s dead Reinette-style, etc etc

the angel mythology is super fucked btw also as if the statue of liberty can move that far without someone seeing her lolllllllllllllllll. Also she’s not made of stone! Fyi! And her construction was well documented so ???????? okay

btw I was like, screaming in irritation at the screen as soon as it turned out oH SHIT WE READ THE BOOK AND THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO OBEY THE BOOK BLAH BLAH TIME LOOPS mother of fuck. I knew it would happen but I still hated every second of it hooray

lol I have no idea what to make of River in this episode. She’s only Amy and Rory’s kid when it’s convenient which is apparently never. Like, at the start, I would expect her to be more protective of two big guys being like LET’S MAKE RORY UNCOMFORTABLE – but she didn’t even start to protest. There was no father/daughter connection between them at all in that scene. He didn’t look pleased to see her, they didn’t hug, etc. Like, the only time he’s felt like River’s dad is in that one scene at the start of AGMGTW and that’s because they wanted to foreshadow the end.

Likewise, Amy and River’s two scenes should’ve been cute but they were too little – I like Amy going off to comfort River after her spat with the Doctor, but there was little content and not even a hug. HUG YOU DAUGHTER FFS. And River being all “don’t let him see you age” no you know what the Doctor can fucking deal, River.

The wrist-breaking scene was gruesome and if the Doctor can just give out regeneration energy to anyone who gets hurt then LOLFOREVER wouldn’t that solve all his problems, but okay whatever let’s ignore it and/or assume that maybe he can only do it to River because she’s quasi-Time Lord whatever whatever. If the Doctor really wanted to DEFY TIME he should’ve just broken the angel’s wrist instead of being like RIVER U DO IT. But again that brings us back to my issue with the book stuff.

OH. AND LOL. RIVER GETS PARDONED NOT BECAUSE OF ANYTHING SHE’S DONE BUT BECAUSE THE DOCTOR CEASES TO EXIST? Fuck me this is the dumbest plot LOL I CAN’T. WHY WAS SHE EVEN IN JAIL THEN IF …… FUCK. I hate this plot so much god I can’t even handle it moving on.

Anyway, as predicted, Amy and Rory went to live in the past. In New York. And died there, apparently. SUX 4 U BRIAN I GUESS YOU’LL NEVER KNOW PS YOU HAVE A GRANDDAUGHTER. I would say also sux 4 the Pond parents but they clearly have no relationship with their daughter anyway so NBD. I hope Amy and Rory also thoroughly enjoyed having minimal rights and possibly living through two world wars.

I liked Amy’s concern for Rory in this episode and Amy/Rory are generally sweet but idk. I liked the rooftop scene I guess. I think I liked the music, I remember noticing it.

Why can’t they just use a vortex manipulator to go get Rory, that’s how River got in, idgi. Why can’t the Doctor see them again later? Like not in 1938 or whatever but some other time? Idgi.

I thought Amy’s letter was nice but I was honestly a little underwhelmed? Oh well. Maybe it’ll be nicer on rewatch.

This needed to be a two-parter. It was cramped. Like, not in the way RTD’s episodes sometimes were, where there was just SO MUCH STUFF and the kitchen sink, but in this sort of uniquely Moffat way where as soon as something interesting gets established you move along to the next thing. Lots of scenes didn’t have any room to breathe. There were lots of scenes that could’ve been expanded IMO.

Anyway all in all it was okay I guess. The performances were good. I don’t know how I feel about Amy’s story ending with her choosing to go be with Rory – I mean, I like her and Rory being together, but it was so… idk. We had FINALLY begun to establish their real lives and then they got uprooted from all of it to go live in the early 20th century.
 
 
( 34 comments — Leave a comment )
Opalshinyopals on September 29th, 2012 09:58 pm (UTC)
TEN POINTS FOR YOU.

I guess at least we know they don't die in WWII because THE GRAVESTONE SAID SO AND THAT MEANS IT CAN'T BE REWRITTEN.

I don't mind Amy choosing to be with Rory but can't they fucking choose to leave on their own accord asdfkghs why does it have to be so dumb?

and lol at River. She gives as many fucks about her parents as they do about her. SEEMS LIKE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP.
Kali: dw :: last of the time lords :: BFF4EVA_thirty2flavors on September 29th, 2012 11:14 pm (UTC)
THE GRAVESTONE/THAT ONE BOOK NEVER LIE. EVER. God River/Amy just write a scene where y'all meet again WAS THAT SO HARD

Omg Eleven being all "they're your parents, I'm so sorry" and River being like WHATEVER was HILARIOUS LOL WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. I guess she can still go see them anyway since she has to go deliver the manuscript so that's why she doesn't give a fuck, but wtf.
fauxkarenfauxkaren on September 30th, 2012 02:08 am (UTC)
God River/Amy just write a scene where y'all meet again WAS THAT SO HARD

LOL FOR REAL.

Time can be rewritten!

Except when it can't!

And this is one of those times where it can't.

Because reasons.
Rosa | ¯\(ºдಠ)/¯rosaxx50 on September 29th, 2012 10:13 pm (UTC)
HAHA, I keep seeing reaction posts on my f'list and I have to scroll down with my eyes closed because 7x04 hasn't aired yet. And resist the urge to spoil myself, because I did that last season and it probably had a big impact on my viewing experience.

Let's just say that I am already sad the Ponds are leaving, even though I felt like it was beyond time they did so.
MV: hamster teamrv3000 on September 30th, 2012 12:12 am (UTC)
It sounds like Rory and Amy had a generally ok life and lived to an old age? But tumblr is full of "OMFG THIS WAS THE SADDEST THING TO EVER SAD AND WAY WORSE THAN A THOUSAND PUPPIES DYING." idk I just woke up from a nap and have a headache and am cynical.
Kali_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 12:54 am (UTC)
lol we don't really know anything about what Amy and Rory did, except that they apparently lived happy lives and were pretty old.

I mean it was sad in the sense that they "can never see the Doctor again"because of some convoluted BS, so if you are invested in their relationship with him it's sad to see it end. But... eh. Have fun living through the early 20th century, though, Ponds.
MVmrv3000 on September 30th, 2012 12:59 am (UTC)
Yeah that bit would suck.

Eh, it sounds like this episode would annoy me a bit.
Paula a.k.a.Tankypamoreno on September 30th, 2012 01:13 am (UTC)
I couldn't agree more.
fauxkarenfauxkaren on September 30th, 2012 02:06 am (UTC)
I HATE HOW NOTHING MAKES SENSE.

It is seriously making my head hurt, trying to make sense of this nonsense.

Ugh.

The episode felt rushed and silly. But at least it wasn't as horrifically offensive as LKR. So there's that, I guess.
sherrilina: Ten (Doctor Who)sherrilina on September 30th, 2012 02:11 am (UTC)
Lol a pretty low bar to clear though...:p
Kali: dw :: amy/rory :: you give me something_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 04:46 am (UTC)
LOL I LEGIT HAVE A RAGING HEADACHE NOW

I'm pretty sure it is unrelated but still!

I didn't hate this episode but it didn't really move me that much either. I kept wondering, "would this move me if I hadn't already accurately predicted everything by spoiling myself?" And I can't really answer that. I don't know. Maybe I would've liked it more, so maybe it's my own fault. I mean to give it a second watch just to see how I feel about Amy in the end and stuff. But as it is I'm sort of like... not the worst, but not the best.
fauxkarenfauxkaren on September 30th, 2012 05:08 am (UTC)
I legit have a headache now too. lol. CLEARLY IT IS MOFFAT'S FAULT.

The only time this episode made me feel anything was when I laughed at Rory lampshading the fact that he dies all the time.
sherrilina: Ten (Doctor Who)sherrilina on September 30th, 2012 02:37 am (UTC)
Best part of watching this on BBCA was the "Spies of Warsaw" trailer with David Tennant that aired at one point!

the angel mythology is super fucked btw also as if the statue of liberty can move that far without someone seeing her lolllllllllllllllll. Also she’s not made of stone! Fyi! And her construction was well documented so ???????? okay

Lol! I didn't think about that one...(though I guess it's on par with 'Giant Cyberman going through Victorian London and nobody writes about it'). Do they ever specify it had to be a stone statue? Though with all the retcons in the last Angels two-parter it doesn't matter.

btw I was like, screaming in irritation at the screen as soon as it turned out oH SHIT WE READ THE BOOK AND THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO OBEY THE BOOK BLAH BLAH TIME LOOPS mother of fuck.

Ugh seriously...so that's the explanation is it, time can be rewritten...unless it has ACTUALLY been written?! Lol, okay...at least we were spared the use of the word "Timey-wimey" during the hand-wave explanations.

SUX 4 U BRIAN I GUESS YOU’LL NEVER KNOW PS YOU HAVE A GRANDDAUGHTER. I would say also sux 4 the Pond parents but they clearly have no relationship with their daughter anyway so NBD.

Yeah, pity they didn't even mention him...or Amy's parents but then they seemed to have had even less of a relationship with their daughter than River Song did even after they existed again!

I hope Amy and Rory also thoroughly enjoyed having minimal rights and possibly living through two world wars.

Lol @ the idea of "lack of women's rights" in the past even occurring to Moffat...besides, Rory is going to have more power and influence and not be ~oppressed~ as a white collar middle-class male, so win!

Why can’t they just use a vortex manipulator to go get Rory, that’s how River got in, idgi. Why can’t the Doctor see them again later? Like not in 1938 or whatever but some other time? Idgi.

Why not indeed...since when can't the TARDIS visit "fixed points in time"? Such BS, manufactured angst basically...

It just so did not need to be this way...it's like Moffat felt the need to one-up RTD in dramatic companion exits. And kill off Rory a couple more times for good measure, b/c that never gets old...*sigh*

Edited at 2012-09-30 02:44 am (UTC)
Kali: dw :: amy/rory :: the days with you_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 04:52 am (UTC)
IDK but it was always "you can't kill a stone" "they turn to stone" etc. NOT THEY TURN TO STONE, OR COPPER, OR WHATEVER STATUES ARE MADE OF.


Ugh seriously...so that's the explanation is it, time can be rewritten...unless it has ACTUALLY been written?!


Unless it is written in stone har har har har har. I dunno I hate time loops lord have mercy, deliver us from the excessive use of time loops PLEASE. I'm so fucking tired of stories that hinge on "fuck free will, you have to do this because your past self did".


Yeah, pity they didn't even mention him...or Amy's parents but then they seemed to have had even less of a relationship with their daughter than River Song did even after they existed again!


lmao poor Brian doesn't even get a mention. Does he even know River exists?

Lol @ the idea of "lack of women's rights" in the past even occurring to Moffat...besides, Rory is going to have more power and influence and not be ~oppressed~ as a white collar middle-class male, so win!

That's true, score one for Rory! Good luck not fighting in WWII!

Why not indeed...since when can't the TARDIS visit "fixed points in time"? Such BS, manufactured angst basically...

LOL yeah it just... I dunno they didn't explain it thoroughly. If it's NY that's the problem, why can't Amy and Rory just LEAVE and get picked up somewhere else? Why can't the Doctor visit? Why can't he visit in a year that isn't 1938? Why.... so many questions.
queenmadonna on September 30th, 2012 03:01 am (UTC)
Listen, I've decided to stop trying to make sense of Moffat's plot holes. Like, it would just drive me off the wall like it has many times before. I'M MAD AT A LOT OF THINGS IN THIS EPISODE, but I'm glad she got to be with Rory, because they were always more or less a package deal. Together or nothing, tbh. I still don't get why the Doctor couldn't visit them?? But okay. Like I know people bitched about RTD but at least he explained his shit and sealed up any holes. I hate Moffat as a writer SO MUCH.
Kali: dw :: amy/rory :: the days with you_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 05:11 am (UTC)
I knew there was no way they'd separate Amy and Rory, so I was happy for them but not surprised by it. Like I said, this fit with pretty much every single one of my predictions pre-episode LOl so there was no real room for me to be surprised by anything.

But yes, I think I feel like there's a bit of a weird lack of closure? I wish we'd seen just ONE clip of Amy and Rory together again in the 30s, or whatever -- anything but just the gravestone. IDK. It didn't feel complete without that.

Also I must say I'm surprised Amy and Rory never had another kid in the end? Or at least, if they did, we never heard about it.
captaintish: Dr. Who -- Amy and Rory's weddingcaptaintish on September 30th, 2012 04:09 am (UTC)
IDK, I think the Statue of Liberty was replaced by a Weeping Angel at some point. Eh, there's a lot of missing logic, but that's nothing new to Doctor Who, whether it be Moffat or RTD.

I enjoyed the episode, but yeah, it would have been nice if it had been a two-parter. There's a lot they could have expanded on. I would have liked to see a glimpse of Rory and Amy together again at the end. I wish they could have somehow stayed in their 21st Century lives, but I'm just happy they're alive and together.
Kali: act :: dten :: i can't do it!_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 05:54 pm (UTC)
The problem with the Weeping Angels specifically is that the constant revision of their rules takes away what made them effective and scary in the first place. There are loads of instances in this ep where no one seems to be looking at an Angel but it's not doing anything at all. What happened to them being "so fast"? Etc.

I think a glimpse of them is what was missing tbh -- I did feel like something was off about the end of the episode and I think it's that, that we never got to SEE them living their life. We just heard about it in really vague detail.
captaintish: Dr. Who -- Amy and Rory's weddingcaptaintish on September 30th, 2012 05:59 pm (UTC)
that we never got to SEE them living their life. We just heard about it in really vague detail.

Right! It's that classic case of "Show, don't tell." Which they sort of failed at.

Still, seeing as it's Moffat, I'm as satisfied as I can be. :)
in_comescompany: TARDISin_comescompany on September 30th, 2012 04:33 am (UTC)
OKAY. SO.

Seriously, I thought I was broken or deficient in some way for not dissolving in a puddle of tears after this episode. I guess it's because Tumblr and RL friends are like "OMG SADDEST THING EVEN SADDER THAN DOOMSDAY!" and I just didn't really have any emotional response to this episode, besides frustration because of all the plotholes mentioned above make the whole "AMY & RORY ARE TRAPPED IN 1938 OR WHENEVER" not, like, IMPOSSIBLE to get around.

I mean, Rose was trapped in an alternate universe, and reality would shatter if the Doctor broke through. And Donna's brain would burn out if she remembered. Those are pretty absolute. This? Ehhh....not so much.

ALSO. Um. What was the thing about two psychopaths in the TARDIS? Since when is the Doctor a psychopath? What is it with Moffat and just throwing these diagnoses around? (I'm looking at you, SHERLOCK.)

I guess River being a psychopath is supposed to sort of explain the weird relationship she has with her parents. By "sort of explain" I mean "not explain at all OH LOOK SOMETHING SHINY."

Anyway. I don't get it. And Doctor Who is becoming less and less enjoyable for me, which is unfortunate because now A LOT of my RL friends watch it and want to talk excitedly about it and I'm just like ANGRY FACE all the time.
Kali: dw :: amy/rory :: the days with you_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 06:31 pm (UTC)
Yeah Tumblr and people seem to love it. I didn't expect to love it -- I pretty much knew I wouldn't because I pretty much knew what was ging to happen and I'm not that invested in the Ponds/think it's time to go. I mean, I wanted to be moved, but I didn't expect to be, so... eh. There were some nice scenes but it didn't resonate with me the way it resonated with all these other people who need buckets for their 'creys' or whatever.

BUT YES. Considering the whole point of this episode was to establish a reason Amy and the Doctor could never see each other again, they failed pretty dismally IMO. Like, jesus Doctor, land in Jersey and catch a train to go see them! Meet them in the 40s! Pick them up when they're 80 and take them back to NYC in the past to live out the last of their days there to preserve the timeline without saying goodbye forever! WTF.

lol the 'psycopath' thing -- you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means, Moffat. And such a flimsy excuse for the Doctor and River not travelling together. WHY? Why not? If they love each other so much, why don't they want to spend time together? What even!

And lol ikr, it's finally catching on over here and I have to be like "I liked the old stuff better..."

willendinrain: bbAmyfezwillendinrain on October 12th, 2012 05:52 am (UTC)
As a born and raised New Yorker, that comic is freakin' hilarious. I genuiely LOL'ed. My boyfriend is from South America and it kinda clueless about certain Americanisms, and he constantly tries to get me to "visit Jersey" with him for "fun" or "the beaches" and...no, just no.

BETTER TO NEVER SEE THE FACE STITCHED ON BOTH YOUR HEARTS THAN ENTER JERSEY! AMEN!
Katherine: Penny annoyedspicandspan89 on September 30th, 2012 05:07 am (UTC)
God this ep was frustratinggg. WHY OH WHY do they keep repeating "time can be rewritten" when they never actually do anything about it??

So we finally get acknowledgement in the show itself that Eleven is the equivalent of an emotionally incompetent eleven-year-old dingbat. Not sure if that's a step forward or back?

Eleven's reaction to losing Amy was pretty insulting too. Like NEVER MIND YOUR HUSBAND, JUST GET BACK IN THE TARDIS AND WE'LL TRAVEL TOGETHER FOREVER AND EVER.
Kali: dw :: amy/rory :: the days with you_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 06:42 pm (UTC)
TIME CAN BE REWRITTEN UNLESS THE PLOT SAYS SO. I mean that's always been the show's philosophy towards time travel but previous Doctors, to the best of my knowledge, didn't yell TIME CAN BE REWRITTEN every five minutes only to go "except not then, sorry", sooo. Also I fucking hate that this omnipotent book determines everyone's future, how fucking stupid is that lol. I HAVE TO BREAK YOUR WRIST RIVER THE BOOK TOLD ME TO.

Haha ikr! I liked how he phrased it "I will never be able to see you again" -- like, centered on him. LOLLLLLLLL. Not "we can never see each other again" or anything but I'll never be able to see YOU again.
Katherine: 10 sonicspicandspan89 on September 30th, 2012 06:58 pm (UTC)
Yeah the book thing was SO DUMB. Rose changed the future so her dad could die with her by his side, Martha reversed an entire year from history, Donna saved a family from Pompei... and the Ponds got to stay in the 1930's because the book said so. And the wrist thing really grosses me out. Why did no one consider, you know, breaking the angel's arm off? For that matter, why not take a fucking sledgehammer to them?

I know Ten got a lot of flack for being mopey, but at least he gave more of a shit about his companions than about himself.
Kali: dw :: doctors :: bringing you back_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 07:27 pm (UTC)
Even in Moffat Who people 'rewrite time' once they've 'read it' all the time. Kazran's whole story was about that! He met him as a grumpy old lonely man and REWROTE HIM to suit Eleven's purposes. What even.

AND IKR. That was stupid. If Eleven wanted to stick it to time/the Almighty Book, he should've broken the angel's wrist, not just left River to do it on her own.

lmao I'm now thinking about Ten trying to send Rose away to be with her family in Doomsday vs NO AMY STOP I'LL NEVER GET TO SEE YOU AGAIN. I mean I don't think Ten was in the right either but LOLLLLLLLLL
Katherine: 10 sonicspicandspan89 on September 30th, 2012 10:00 pm (UTC)
Man I always forget about Kazran - which I guess is telling lol.

Eleven is such a selfish douche. I just can't with him.
Jude: doctor who; donna is not down with this danceonstardust on September 30th, 2012 05:25 am (UTC)
Thank God someone understood that this episode was so confusing. I mean wtf? The only thing that made this episode look good was the scenery. :/
Kali: dw :: amy/rory :: you give me something_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 06:43 pm (UTC)
It was a pretty episode but in all certainly not my favourite. Not the worst, either, but not the best, and easily my least favourite companion departure ep.
willendinrain: Donna's Winningswillendinrain on October 12th, 2012 05:56 am (UTC)
I think a fair chunk of the Ponds' arc could have been saved if The God Complex was truly their departure. Also, much more emotionally compelling, character-derived episode.
lorelaisquared: DW Rory: Nerdylorelaisquared on September 30th, 2012 06:40 am (UTC)
LOLOL I was thinking as I watched it, "OMG Kali was basically right about EVERYTHING!" LOL so well done you!

I enjoyed this episode more than you I think but that's because I basically decided a long time ago to stop trying to make all the plots and continuity make sense and to just enjoy what's there. So I enjoyed it. And I'm sad the Ponds are gone but they have a happier ending than anyone else in New Who, so although I was a bit teary eyed at the emotion of the final scenes, that was mostly because of the amazing performances the actors gave. Still it doesn't even come close to touching the gut wrenching sobs and sorrow I faced after Doomsday. People were asking me the next day who had died I took it that hard. (I sobbed for like 3 hours after that). This was sad, but nowhere near that.

I like that Amy chose. In a weird way I think it actually showed evolution of her character from S5 where she couldn't chose a thing.

Anyway, I'm ready to meet JLC's companion. I want to know how it's all going to play out.
demented & sad, but socialpapilio_luna on September 30th, 2012 06:31 pm (UTC)
For the end to have been sad, I would have had to believe that the Doctor gives a flying fuck about Amy and I've never really gotten that impression except for the few times where the script says

DOCTOR
I, in fact, do give a flying fuck about you, Amelia.


So mainly I was like, good for you Ponds, for finally getting out of the clutches of that asshole. Enjoy World War II.
Kali: dw :: doctordonna :: what is this place?_thirty2flavors on September 30th, 2012 06:52 pm (UTC)
ikr

Why should I worry about the Doctor being on his own again suddenly when we've previously established he was on his own for THREE HUNDRED FUCKING YEARS and he seems to be doing more or less okay as long as he pops in on an old friend once every century?
sarahvalanche: [dw] rose is boredcloudydaise on September 30th, 2012 09:43 pm (UTC)
I just watched this and I was a little bit sad about the way it went down but that is definitely a lot more of a credit to the performances than the writing because basically everything was pretty wtf. At this point I'm just glad it's over. And for all the people who are creying over this on tumblr, I'm sure they'll be back in whatever 50th anniversary special episode they do where they bring everyone back whether they have a good reason to or not. So calm down.

Anyway I agree with everything in this post. I would write my own ranty lj entry about it but I'm just too tired. I'm just too tired of the time loops and the plotholes and the fucking everything with River that makes no sense. And they're psychopaths now really really really. I can't. AND WHY DID THEY EVEN BOTHER BRINGING RORY'S DAD IN AT ALL IF THIS IS THE WAY IT'S GOING TO END? OH MY GOD. Omg no. I'm stopping I can't do it. YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY MORE OF MY BRAIN CELLS, STEVEN MOFFAT
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