22 April 2012 @ 09:23 pm
hey look we finished Avatar!  


I watched all this with rose_dawson who was very confident I would love it, though to be honest I think it took a little while for my "like" to nudge over into "love". But by the time s3 was over I was quite into it.

UMMMMMM. I don't even know where to start. I think the show was pretty well-done overall, even if its target demographic sometimes felt like it was holding it back a bit -- everyone (except Jet? LOL WTF) had cartoon immunity, anything that got dark would be undercut eventually by silly kid humour, the pacing of the seasons was a bit weird, etc. But there are definitely enough things in here to add the kind of complexity that attracts more of a mixed age group -- things like the corruption in Ba Sing Se and the way the war was hidden from the civilians within the wall, the brainwashing, Zuko's relationship with his father, Azula losing her damn mind, genocides both attempted and complete, etc.

The world-building and the idea of bending, I can especially see the idea of it appealing to kids but ngl I often thought myself about how cool it would be to airbend and just fly around or whatever. It made for a lot of great action sequences and interesting animation. That's one thing I always thought about Harry Potter, that it's kind of a shame it was never animated because you just have that much more freedom with special effects etc that even huge budgets can't quite buy.


Also Kyoshi is a bamf.


I don't want to speak too much about the way they used culture because I don't know much about it, BUT it was nice to see so many different and non-Western cultures used and lol @ anyone saying this is ~ethnically ambiguous. NOT EVEN A LITTLE.

I am just going to break down the characters as we go. SUKI is a flawless queen and probably my fave, I say "probably" mainly because she needs to be in more episode. Suki doesn't even need bending to break out of Azkaban okay. Sokka was my other favourite, I found him quite funny (always a plus for me tbqh) and sympathetic at the same time, especially as the main non-bender in the group. Naturally because as individuals they are my faves, SOKKA/SUKI YES.



Toph was also excellent and probably my third favourite and I thought they dealt with her blindness quite well. Aang was precious and much younger than I thought he would be -- I really liked him in kind of a weird way, he was never actively my favourite or anything but he was a very easy hero to root for. He reminded me of naive bb Harry Potter, just all this do-gooder energy and nobility lol.

Katara... was fine, but not a favourite of mine. She always kind of felt like a poor man's Hermione to me -- I didn't massively dislike her, but sometimes I found her a bit much and often felt like the episodes that were meant to teach her something didn't really teach anything but "Katara is awesome", lol. Like I said, she felt like a poor man's Hermione to me, and like Hermione had more dimension and conquered more challenges and stuff as the main female character as compared to Katara. I also thought Katara's crowning moment of awesome in the finale should've been rearranged -- like when Molly kills Bellatrix, Katara beating Azula didn't really feel "earned"; Zuko should've been the one to take down Azula because that's more meaningful to his story, while Katara could've done... something else. I'M NOT SURE WHAT, but something else.

My UNPOPULAR OPINION, though, is that I didn't care much for or about Zuko. I didn't hate him -- I didn't hate anyone in A:TLA -- but I just could not bring myself to care much, and actively groaned every time a Zuko-heavy ep came up in s2 in particular. I was laughing at him, not in any way with him. I just didn't connect with his story. I think I'm just kind of over the bad boy redemption story. Zuko is everything fandom wanted Draco Malfoy to be, down to the abusive dad and blatant redemption arc, so it shouldn't surprise me at all that fandom latched onto him, but... ehhhhhhh. I never liked Leather Pants Draco anyway so w/e Zuko. My favourite Zuko moment was definitely:



Hilarious.

Also I refuse to dignify ~Zutara~ with more than this mention because Mai is awesome and the best thing Zuko had going for him. I am told much of fandom hates Mai which LOL, FANDOM HATING THE CANON LOVE INTEREST OF THE FANDOM DARLING, COLOUR ME SURPRISED, but whatever internet Mai was flawless and I think her "I love Zuko more than I fear you" scenes was one of the best like, character capstones they did. SPEAKING OF:



The relationship between Azula, Ty Lee and Mai was one of the most interesting/complex on the show, and these three were probably my favourites after Sokka/Suki/Toph. I think the moment where Mai chooses Zuko and Ty Lee chooses Mai was the most... ~shocking~ moment, maybe, for me. I don't know that "shocking" is quite the right word because I suspected Azula's life would start to crumble around her and that eventually Ty Lee and Mai would stop supporting her, but I liked the way it was done, with Mai and Azula breaking apart first and Ty Lee ultimately choosing to protect Mai rather than listen to Azula.



Azula in general was a character I liked watching a lot. I found her by far the most charismatic of the villains, immediately more fun to watch than Zuko and more intimidating/interesting to me than Ozai. Her descent into UTTER MADNESS was disturbing to watch -- I don't think they should have redeemed her (and clearly they didn't) but she's also not quite what I expected just based on fandom, I think the way she falls apart at the end shows she was quite hurt by Mai and Ty Lee's betrayal whereas I had initially assumed she'd be completely emotionally detached. But she lost her shit without them.

EVENTUALLY I will post about Korra since I've seen all 3 of those eps too. But this is long so, another day!
 
 
( 49 comments — Leave a comment )
Jeanne "dancing in the" d'Arcrose_dawson on April 23rd, 2012 01:27 am (UTC)
Azula losing her damn mind
how dare you?

Edited at 2012-04-23 01:27 am (UTC)
Jeanne "dancing in the" d'Arcrose_dawson on April 23rd, 2012 01:30 am (UTC)
Mai is awesome and the best thing Zuko had going for him
ia Mai 4 president
Jeanne "dancing in the" d'Arcrose_dawson on April 23rd, 2012 01:33 am (UTC)
A+ post cept for the glaring omission of TYZULA tbh
Kali: atla :: dangerous ladies plus one_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 01:38 am (UTC)
more canon than Zutara tbqh

although tbf so is everything
Kali: atla :: suki comes back_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 01:36 am (UTC)
Mai was probably in charge of his PR as Fire Lord tbqh
Kali: atla :: suki comes back_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 01:33 am (UTC)


TOTALLY HEALTHY
Hannahfirstofoct on April 23rd, 2012 01:39 am (UTC)
Yay! I love your thoughts. And I loooove that gif of Sokka & Suki. So totally adorable. I'm so upset that Sokka is dead in Korra. :( :( :( :(

Mai is so great.
Kali: atla :: dangerous ladies plus one_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 01:45 am (UTC)
Sokka and Suki are quality. lol I love when Zuko and Sokka are arguing over how to capture the Azkaban guard dude/Mai's uncle and Suki just scales a goddamn wall and does it herself.

It's so typical of the internet to hate Mai but smh anyway.
Hannahfirstofoct on April 23rd, 2012 01:50 am (UTC)
Omg that scene, I love it. And then it wasn't really Suki, but when Sokka has the romantic evening plan and lol fucking Zuko ruins it.

Mai's great. At first she rubbed me the wrong way in that she wouldn't trade for her bb brother, but I more than warmed to her. LOL GEEZ I JUST ASKED IF YOU WERE COLD, NOT FOR YOUR LIFE STORY.
Kali: atla :: suki comes back_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 01:57 am (UTC)
lol fucking Zuko just sits down. CLEARLY YOU AREN'T INTERRUPTING ANYTHING ZUKO.

I remember thinking the hostage situation was a bit stupid because lol like the Gaang is going to hurt a baby.
icecreamlova ¯\(ºдಠ)/¯: real life?rosaxx50 on April 23rd, 2012 01:40 am (UTC)
Noooo, I love Mai (Mai/Zuko OTP) so much. I love Zuko more than I fear you." = ♥♥♥♥ Love > Fear is the best.

I don't think Zuko or Katara killed Azula, though. She got put in a mental institute instead.
Kali: atla :: fucking zuko_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 01:47 am (UTC)
Yes! Mai is great. The internet can bite me.

Oh I didn't mean to suggest they killed her, I know she wasn't dead and no one really gets killed/dies in this show except Jet lol. But I do think it could've/should've been Zuko who defeats her.
icecreamlova ¯\(ºдಠ)/¯: dw: Doctor/Rose: adorkablerosaxx50 on April 23rd, 2012 02:06 am (UTC)
YOUR ICON IS THE BEST. I mean, I like Zuko, but the constant suggestion that Zuko >>>>> Aang annoys the hell out of me.
Kali: atla :: prepare to meet your doom hair_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 03:59 am (UTC)
I just now realized I DID write "Katara killing Azula" OOPS I did not mean that at all.

Yeah I like Aang a lot more sry2say Zuko. I can see why/am unsurprised that Zuko is the popular one but ehhhhhhh.
Ellie: the greatest Earthbender in the worldquick_ly on April 23rd, 2012 01:49 am (UTC)
Yay Avatar feels! The internet's distain for Mai is insufferable and petty, since it's soley based on her 'getting in the way' of Zutara (this is horrible, though not surprising), since she is amazing and without a doubt the best thing that happens to Zuko.
Kali: atla :: suki comes back_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 01:54 am (UTC)
lol I'm unsurprised, since the canon love interest is almost always disdained for being ...the canon love interest and "standing in the way" of the fanon ship, but ugh w/e fandom she's so great.
ladysophiekitty: LotS Kahlan white dressladysophiekitty on April 23rd, 2012 01:59 am (UTC)
LOL I was surprised I liked Zuko because usually I don't like that kind of character and I don't like Draco Malfoy. But I think it was more his relationship with Uncle (who reminds me so much of a family member of mine) that I was just really pleased to see them together. When they were separated I was all "Ugh, can you just reunite with him already so I can like you more?"

I really liked Mai, too, and her relationship with Zuko (which also made him tolerable to watch when he was away from Uncle. "I don't hate you." "I don't hate you, too.")

SUKI <3 she's such a badass and so cute and pretty.

I need Avatar icons!
Kali: atla :: suki comes back_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 02:04 am (UTC)
I did like Iroh a lot and I though this relationship with Zuko was sweet I guess, but just in general I was always like "ugh Zuko whatever" lol.

Suki is such a badass! Kyoshi warriors yesssss.

I downloaded a bunch of icons and want to have one of like Suki and one of Mai and Toph and Azula etc etc but I don't have any room left! Which means I need to go weed out some others. Hmmmmmm.
ladysophiekitty: Avatar fire gang together we will rule tladysophiekitty on April 23rd, 2012 06:13 pm (UTC)
LOL I feel kind of bad because I went Avatar icon hunting and realized I ended up getting 2 of the icons you have. WHAT CAN I SAY, YOU HAVE GOOD TASTE!
Kali: dw :: rose :: A CHAV!_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 06:28 pm (UTC)
lol my icon tastes ARE excellent, what can I say.
doctahr: Nine/Rose Happy Ninedoctahr on April 23rd, 2012 02:01 am (UTC)
YAY. I like it when you watch things I like.
Now go watch Psych! ;)
Kali: atla :: dangerous ladies plus one_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 02:08 am (UTC)
Haha I'm glad!

LOL unfortunately for Psych being a procedural puts it at a big disadvantage with me.
doctahrdoctahr on April 23rd, 2012 02:19 am (UTC)
I would like to say that normally I have a good vocab, but I have no idea what "procedural" means.
Looking it up on Google just made me more confused. It said something about programming.
What is it?
doctahrdoctahr on April 23rd, 2012 02:30 am (UTC)
Like, the fact it's a cop show?
"Procedure"?
Kali_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 02:32 am (UTC)
Yes! "Procedural" like, cop shows or medicine shows where there's a case/mystery per episode that gets solved and every episode is the same format -- like CSI, or Criminal Minds, or House.
fauxkarenfauxkaren on April 23rd, 2012 04:05 am (UTC)
#TEAM ZUKO

#TEAM ZUTARA

NO REGRETS

Tbh, I would probably have liked Mai/Zuko better if A) I didn't ship her with Ty Lee and B) if I were paying better attention when I watched the show. LOL. I was packing and getting ready to move and had Avatar on in the bg, so um. I thought for the LONGEST time that Mai was faking her feelings for Zuko on Azula's orders. OOPS.

ETA: Tbh, I'm mostly just #Team Not Kataang. Ugh. I mean, it's not a ship that inspires the intense loathing that I have for a ship like SanSan, but I just... I could not with them as a romantic couple.

Edited at 2012-04-23 04:06 am (UTC)
Kali: atla :: prepare to meet your doom hair_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 04:31 am (UTC)
THIS WHOLE COMMENT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME AT ALL
Kali: atla :: kyoshi warrior_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 05:45 am (UTC)
More specifically, Kataang to me was like R/Hr -- I shipped it inasmuch as I knew it would be canon and thought it made sense and was mildly sweet, but wasn't particularly invested... except that it was the canon alternative to an irrationally popular fanon ship I dislike a lot, so I ended up feeling idk vindicated/protective of Katara/Aang as a result.
fauxkarenfauxkaren on April 23rd, 2012 05:59 am (UTC)
I just.... Aang was 10, but he always read as a very young 10. Katara was 12, but she always read as being mature for her age. And then you have the fact that Aang grew up without a mother and Katara really seemed to fill that role in the group a lot of the time and as;dlkfjasd. It was just very DNW.

Plus, like most of the relationship was from Aang's POV and we didn't really get a lot from Katara's perspective. And then it's like Aang ~gets the girl~ at the end as a reward for saving the world and just. No thanks.

Idk. It just rubbed me the wrong way.
Kali: atla :: my cranky girlfriend_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 06:07 am (UTC)
I thought Aang was like 12 and Katara was like 14 -- they're kids and I don't want porn or anything but I don't think an age gap of about two years is that big a deal. Plus, it always seemed pretty mutual to me. There was maybe more focus on Aang's side because you do get his like hallucinations or w/e in the Avatar state and stuff, but I always got the impression Katara was into him as well vs Zuko whom she only even liked for like 4 episodes.

I see people say Katara was his "reward" a lot but I think it's kind of rich coming from (usually/as far as I've seen anyway) people who ship Zutara. I don't know how people expected ~Zutara~ would go down since it didn't but I can only assume it would be like GEE ZUKO NOW THAT YOU'RE GOOD I LOVE YOU, which to me reads like much more of a "reward" than Katara and Aang, who were into each other and liked and respected each other the whole show.

I also think, you do have that episode where Katara says she's confused because there's a war on etc. So in that sense I'd agree that for saving the world and creating peace, Aang is "rewarded" with being able to be with Katara/with Katara being less confused. This seems like pretty standard hero journey stuff to me, and doesn't really strike me as somehow egregious or offensive. It's similar again in Harry Potter, where there are lots of great reasons to end the war but on a personal level what that sacrifice means for Harry is that he can have a happy family and be with Ginny. It didn't seem to me like "Aang gets the girl because he won the war" so much as "Aang ends the war which creates the peace which allows him and Katara to pursue a relationship".

Edited at 2012-04-23 06:11 am (UTC)
fauxkarenfauxkaren on April 23rd, 2012 06:23 am (UTC)
Gah. Yes, you're right about the ages. lol. I just always read Aang as really young which is I guess why my mind thought he was 10. IDK.

Like I like the idea of Zutara because I think the characters bring out really interesting aspects of each other, but I didn't want it to be Zuko's ~happy ending~ or whatever. Although from what I've heard, the Zutara shippers were really crazy while it was airing. So, yeah. I'm sure that there were a lot of Zutara shippers out there who thought Zuko deserved Katara. But.

Idk. I just. I can't articulate it. But whenever Katara/Aang stuff happened there was just so much DNW all over my face. It just completely rubbed me the wrong way. Gah. You're right about it being typical hero's journey stuff, but idk. It just really did not work for me.
ibishtar: Legend of Korraibishtar on April 23rd, 2012 09:00 am (UTC)
I've just got into Avatar and Korra too! Check out the header on my lj.
I disagree about Katara vs. Azula. I thought the moment Zuko jumped in the lightning beam was heart-stopping, and it was nice that Azula was defeated through an act of friendship. I thought it was satisfying to see Katara defeat fire with water, and in such a clever way too.
Aang's my favourite! I find the kid's combination of childishness, wisdom, and spirituality intriguing. I like the character design too, this bald kid with the tattoos. And he laughs at gravity. Airbending rules.
I don't think most of fandom hates Mai, just some Zutara shippers. I agree that the moment when Mai and Ty Lee went against Azula was one of the best in the series.

I was laughing at him, not in any way with him.
ZUKO LAUGHING LOL THE HORROR

I thought Zuko was a really good character. At first I just enjoyed watching Uncle Iroh trolling him, but eventually I did root for Zuko for his own sake and looked forward to the day he would join Team Avatar. Zuko going against Ozai and his discovering the origin of firebending with Aang were some of my favourite moments as well.

Agree that Azula was a great villain. I used to think I'd never feel any sympathy for her, but her unravelling in the finale did it.

Have you seen the Legend of Korra interactive game? There's some nice backstory to be found, including the fate of some characters from The Last Airbender which hasn't been revealed yet in the series, so mild spoilers there (but exciting ones!).
Kali: atla :: I AM BLIND YOU MORONS_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 04:25 pm (UTC)
I think the way they had Katara beat Azula was very clever, but I still felt like -- I dunno, I guess there wasn't really a more personal opponent for Katara to face by that point, but I did think it felt like it should be Zuko who defeated Azula in the end.

Aang is great, I liked him a lot. I laughed at him a lot because he's just... SO eager and little and idk cheery I guess, but I found him very likable and adorable. I AM SAD THAT HE APPARENTLY DIED VERY YOUNG wtf.

lol Iroh trolling Zuko were some of my favourite Zuko moments. MY UNCLE SPENT TEN MINUTES ON MY HAIR!!

I had heard about it but never seen it! I have now played around with it and clicked on various things. Aang dying at 66 is pretty crazy, though I am pretty pumped for Korra to inevitably meet him in the ~spirit world~.
ibishtar: Legend of Korraibishtar on April 23rd, 2012 05:20 pm (UTC)
I think the slow burn to conquer his own demons was Zuko's most important battle. I didn't think of Azula as his real enemy. In the end, she was also a victim of their father. I think Zuko's real victory was when he told Ozai that what he had done to him and the world was inhumane.

Yeah, apparently being stuck in the iceberg for 100 years ate away at his life-expectancy, which makes sense but is very sad. He never got to meet his grandkids! And poor Katara. I got a bit emotional at the references to the past in LOK, so god knows what mess I'll be in when Katara meets grown-up Aang in the Spirit World, even if it goes like this:


It was Iroh that endeared me to Zuko. Not just in the "this adorable character likes him, so there must be something good about him" way, but also in the funny way it was reciprocated, where Zuko would let his uncle get away with the constant trolling.

Sooo, you've poked about the site. Did you see the bit where they spoke about the current Fire Lord?
Sarah Catherine: waterfallelirrina on April 23rd, 2012 12:18 pm (UTC)
Just in time for Korra! Yay, I love Mai!
Kali: atla :: my cranky girlfriend_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 03:28 pm (UTC)
Mai is awesome!

I actually started because of Korra lol, I saw the first two episodes of Korra and then decided to go back and watch Avatar.
extraordinary machine.: TV - Avatar - Aang/Katarala_petite_singe on April 23rd, 2012 02:00 pm (UTC)
YAY! I just finished watching this show not that long ago either and I was pretty impressed too; I think my favorite part was how it really didn't talk down to kids. The messages were simple but mature and told in really smart ways, which is I guess why it felt pretty universal.

BUT it was nice to see so many different and non-Western cultures used and lol @ anyone saying this is ~ethnically ambiguous. NOT EVEN A LITTLE.
HA, IKR? I loved how casual it was--like, they weren't all LOOK, THEY'RE NOT WHITE, ISN'T THAT AMAZING OF US and I'm sure kids barely noticed that they were ~different~, but srsly, the movie's casting is just such a glaring fail after you've seen one episode. Lawd.

I of course LOVED Zuko because my heart will instantly fly to the angsty one, but I did appreciate that it had humor sometimes as well. XD ("I'm never happy.") I definitely had Zutara feels early on, but Mai was awesome and I loved her deadpan snark and utter absence of fucks given, and I LOVED that she defended him at the end. <3 Azula is fascinating and I totally ship Azula/Ty Lee in like the darkest way ever, because wow. I love lady-friendships on shows, but crazy!dark!lady-friendships are possibly even better. O___o I was glad she didn't die, though, because I'm a dorky pacifist and I thought those messages were great...and it opens the door for awesome fic follow-ups, so yeah. (I haven't watched Korra! Gah! I fail!)
Kali: atla :: you made out with the moon?_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 04:30 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I think that's it. There were some reasonably adult messages in there even if they were presented very simply for the sake of kids. For the most part the kids-showness didn't bother me, though there were moments here or there where I wished the show was allowed to be just a liiittle bit darker. Like possibly being allowed to kill anyone (except Jet).

I remember all the movie wank and I couldn't help thinking about it while watching and just like L O L, NO.

I warmed up to Zuko a little by the end but I think overall I was just bored by him. I never liked Draco Malfoy either, lol. Azula/Ty Lee is basically canon, ngl. I thought their relationship in particular was really interesting. Ty Lee seemed so genuine in her support of Azula... until Azula turned on Mai.
Anya: disney → king of pride rockerethesunrises on April 23rd, 2012 04:07 pm (UTC)
Why am I not surprised in the least that your ATLA thoughts are my ATLA thoughts? I marathoned this over my past winter break and while I didn't love, I did really enjoy it and I think I like it a lot more in hindsight. The same cannot be said for Korra which I am already over the moon in love with so.

Sokka was easily my favorite character of the series because he fits one of my favorite character tropes but I like that the writers didn't just stick him into the comedic sidekick stereotype. He wasn't a bender but he still came into his own and his arc was one of my favorite arcs. I just love how much he grew and his girlfriend turned into the moon and that's tough, buddy. dfkghdfkjgh I just have so many Sokka feels omg he's a character I really, really love and him and Suki are awesome, yes.

GUESS WHO MY SECOND FAVORITE CHARACTER IS? YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. IT'S MAI. SUCK IT, FANDOM. (I am honestly so glad I'm not in this fandom - just hearing tales about it scares me.) I do not get the shipping wars of Aang/Katara vs. Zuko/Katara because Zuko and Katara had like no canon evidence. Not to mention the fact that Zuko/Mai was flawless and haters gonna hate. I honestly don't care much for Zuko as an individual but omg him and Mai just make my heart soar. So does Ty Lee~ I didn't really care much for Azula but ugh I love me some Fire Nation girls.

I agree with you on Katara; she was never my favorite either and she and Aang are canon and were predictable but I'm pretty meh on them as a ship.
Kali: lok :: republic city_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 04:39 pm (UTC)
I didn't really start loving it until mid s3 I think, and then I was surprised by how much I liked it in the end. Korra is weird for me because it's the reason I started watching Avatar in the first place, but now having seen all of Avatar, going back to Korra feels strange. I AM EXCITE THOUGH I LOVE KORRA AND HER BAD SELF.

I liked Sokka a lot too, he was comic relief but he had heart and it was... he was clever/the guy who planned everything and provided self-aware humour instead of just being the really dumb and creating the slapstick-y type humour you often get in kids shows. PLUS SUKI/SOKKA. BEST.

I do not get the shipping wars of Aang/Katara vs. Zuko/Katara because Zuko and Katara had like no canon evidence.

lmao IFKR! I knew going into the show that there was this big ship war and people shipped ~**~Zutara but god it's not in the show at all. REMINDS ME OF ANOTHER SHIP WAR IN ANOTHER FANDOM HEM HEM. But yeah Zuko/Katara, I don't get it. It doesn't help that neither of them are my favourites I guess, but also like... they didn't seem very good for each other? Their episode together was about trying to kill a dude, what the hell. I also don't think Katara would have the patience to deal with Zuko in the long run. She would get frazzled and flip out.

WHEREAS MAI can just calmly call him on his shit. Plus "I love Zuko more than I fear you" was such a great moment w/e fandom. lol THAT FOOD WAS FOR MY CRANKY GIRLFRIEND! Mai caring about Zuko without indulging his whiny Draco Malfoy side was the best.
Oxymoronoxymora on April 23rd, 2012 05:54 pm (UTC)
I'm marathoning Avatar right now! I haven't seen the finale (the last 4 episodes) yet. I agree with everything you said, except that Sokka is my absolute favorite. Suki's cool, and so's Suki/Sokka, but she wasn't in enough episodes to really make me love her. Sokka, on the other hand, completely won me over with the Jet and fortune teller eps, especially because I expected him to be the lame comic relief sidekick. I love that, except for the first few episodes, they never downplayed his intelligence, but neither did they give him in any of the classic "smart kid" attributes. I found that a really refreshing choice for a kids' show. For me, he was the least stereotypical of the characters. I'm also pretty fond of Iroh. I think that's my love for backstory -- he's the only main character who has a significant past by virtue of not being a teenager.

I liked Zuko's character arc very much, and I was anxious for him to come around and join the group, but that didn't make Zuko a particular favorite of mine. All of these kids have had it pretty hard, I don't see why Zuko should get more credit for overcoming that because he had to be evil for three years first.

I know nothing about the fandom, but from what I'm reading I'm glad I don't. I couldn't care less about Aang/Katara (I don't hate the pairing, but I couldn't ship it -- I think they're just much too young and inexperienced for me to want them to start a lifelong relationship, and I don't really see how they'd fit together romantically in the long run), and while I can see where people are getting the Zuko/Katara, Mai was awesome and they seemed really good for each other.
Kali: atla :: fucking zuko_thirty2flavors on April 23rd, 2012 06:21 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I think Sokka was quite well done. Oftentimes in kid shows especially the comic relief is comic relief because they're stupid and slapstick, but Sokka was more of a self-aware sort of humour for the show and also allowed to be very clever and resourceful and sympathetic. I think you're right in that this probably makes him one of the least stereotypical characters or at least the one who is furthest from being a stock character. As much as I enjoy characters like Azula and Toph, in basic personality and function they're not really that original.

From a sort of objective viewpoint I can appreciate what they were doing with Zuko and especially his function on a show aimed at children, but in practice I just didn't really connect with him or care. I've been finding myself super bored with the "bad boy redemption arc" trope lately so that's probably part of it. STOP HOPING I'LL CARE ABOUT DRACO MALFOY, WORLD, basically, lol. And I do think that, yeah, what gets me about these arcs or maybe just the way these arcs are responded to in fandom is that they're so celebrated in a way that... like the attitude almost seems to be that Zuko is the ~real hero~ because he had to overcome being a douchebag for years, whereas Aang was always a good guy so somehow his own sacrifices and struggles are less impressive. I think it's important to have heroes struggle and to have them falter sometimes, but that doesn't always mean they have to start out flat-out evil and reform.

The shipwar reminds me of the H/Hr vs R/Hr shipwar in HP fandom and my feelings towards it are much the same, in that I'm not particularly invested in either side but find the shipwar irritating regardless. I remember seeing it all over the internet a few years ago when the finale aired, and now that Korra is airing there's a renewed interest in Avatar and it's surfacing again.
mildlyconfusedmildlyconfused on April 24th, 2012 12:49 pm (UTC)
Amber Island Beach episode: Best thing to ever happen to animated television y/y? Funnily enough, Azula just reminded me of Paris Geller in that one, which was a shocker to say the least, because Paris is my favourite thing on Gilmore Girls, tyvm.

Hm... I wonder what this proclivity to sympathise with the female over-achiever grinding herself down says about me...
mildlyconfusedmildlyconfused on April 24th, 2012 12:59 pm (UTC)
Also, I should really learn to finish my thought processes before posting. Harumph. Aaaanyways:
Also, the only kind of shipping I did on Avatar was friendshipping (I suppose noiw being in my midtwenties, shipping teens iffs me a bit, whilst shipping 12 year-olds (hi, Aang) just makes me feel like a filthy old woman. Rules do not apply to HP. I can continue shipping R/Hr however much I bloody well want. Having read those books as a teen gives me perversion immunity). Though I do have fuzzy feelings about Suki/Sokka (most excellent human beings, those two) and I love the Toph-Sokka friendship. The finale on the airship... I had a twig in my eye.

I adore Zuko, simply because he is such a socially inadept little snowflake (and I think he is nothing like Malfoy, though I do agree with your assertion of fandom's idea of the little git). I mean: "Hello. Zuko here.". Precious little douche.
Kali: atla :: suki comes back_thirty2flavors on April 24th, 2012 03:35 pm (UTC)
Yeah I mean I use the word "ship" pretty loosely because it's not like for any of these couples I feel the need to go read smut or for that matter even G-rated fic. But I enjoyed the canon ships as they were happening well enough.

I don't think he's much like canon Malfoy, but I think he's exactly like fanon Malfoy (who bears no resemblance to canon Malfoy either) -- he's the ~misunderstood bad-boy who's just doing it because of his daddy issues who eventually realizes he doesn't need his dad's approval etc etc. Just not really a story that interests me, I think.
mildlyconfused: RC geeksmildlyconfused on April 24th, 2012 03:44 pm (UTC)
100% word.
I don't fist-pump for HONOOOOOOOOOUUUURRRR Zuko. I giggle for "cloud sandwhich" Zuko and it being Toph's turn to have a "life-changing day trip" with Zuko. And Mai. I fistpump for Mai an awful lot.
The "misunderstood bad boy" trope is so very worrying because it plays into many unhealthy perceptions of our male-driven society, i.e.: You can change him. If he isn;'t good, it's because YOU aren't the magical wonder vulva that provides for all his character needs. He teases/bullies/slaps you because he likes you and doesn't know what to do with his feelings. Oh, the humanity...

And Malfoy is a little douche nozzle.
obstinate, headstrong girl!: atla | maizombie_boogie on April 25th, 2012 12:25 am (UTC)
My only real complaint about A:TLA is that it had so many interesting dark edges that I wish it could have explored were it not on Nickolodeon. This especially comes into play with Katara's storyline, which really should have been more of a dark war narrative and I wish they would have explored it more (unsurprisingly my favourite Katara episodes were "The Painted Lady" and "The Southern Raiders"). My Katara problems are Hermione problems because I think they were both underserved by their narratives, which had other priorities.

I actually really flove Zuko, but that's because I really liked how they played out his whole angstangstangst slash redemption arc. I didn't feel like Draco in Leather Pants to me like other emo boy stories have? Or it was at least tolerable to me because unlike other emo boys he actually... decided to go after redemption instead of just staying the exact same and having fandom apologize for him. And I love that he's really just a giant dork. I mean, the ~misunderstood stuff is whatever but I find Zuko HILARIOUS. I will never get over his speech to the turtle when he's preparing to join Aang. But really the Fire Nation ladies are my lifeblood and "The Beach" is my everything. LMAO this fandom is so transparent in its hatred of Mai. Mai/Zuko was way underdeveloped and too much happened off-screen, but IDGAF I love my hipster king and queen of fantasy Japan. I get Katara/Zuko in theory but the show never went anywhere with it to my satisfaction and thus, I do not ship it (I don't really ship Katara/Aang either because she was positioned as his mom too often and spent the entire series going "umm no thanks" before they decided in the finale that oop Aang needed to get the girl).

But anyway AZULAAAAAA LIGHTNING BOLTS IN MY EYES MY SOCIOPATHIC QUEEN ♥. Her Agni Kai with Zuko and her mental breakdown were flaw-free. The breakup of the elite fire nation lesbians girl squad was legit devastating.

Edited at 2012-04-25 12:27 am (UTC)
Kali: atla :: dangerous ladies plus one_thirty2flavors on April 25th, 2012 02:26 am (UTC)
I think the show could've been a bit better served by a slightly higher rating, yeah. Not even necessarily that high -- just closer to a PG or a PG13 than the G-rated, "no one can die" type stuff.

My favourite Katara episode and possibly my favourite episode overall was the one with the bloodbending being introduced, I forget what it was called -- but I thought it was a great episode, possibly because it allowed the show to explore its dark side a bit, and I thought it did more interesting things with Katara's character/taught her more/tested her more than "The Painted Lady" did (which seemed to just reinforce all of her existing beliefs). I though the episode where she seeks revenge was interesting as well, although I liked it a bit less than the bloodbending one overall.

I am apparently quite foreveralone in my apathy towards Zuko, lol, so I guess his arc must've been very well done by most people's standards and just didn't resonate at all with me for whatever reason. Maybe I'll just go make a bunch of fandomsecrets.

Azula was excellent, very charismatic and fun to watch and her breakdown in the last few episodes was so well executed. I thought they did a great job of making her sympathetic without actually redeeming her.
Lady SugarQuill: loisclarkladysugarquill on April 25th, 2012 12:56 am (UTC)
I always found Zuko adorable. He was so bad at being evil that he was fun to watch, but he was also smart enough that he wasn't Team Rocket. And he had a code of honor, as mocked as that was, that made him interesting.
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