01 May 2011 @ 10:51 pm
6x02 day of the moon  
So I finally watched Day of the Moon with goldy_dollar.

Um... I am not really sure what I just saw. I think I need to watch it again in order to ~collect my thoughts.

Frances said it felt really choppy, and I agree. I think the problem with the way Moffat has started off this season is that I'm not sure what's a plot hole and what is some crucial detail that will come up later. It makes it sort of frustrating because my thoughts on every episode wind up being like "idk I guess I will wait and see". Like, why the F was Rory in Arizona, River in NYC, Amy in Utah, and Eleven in prison? Why did Canton pretend to hunt them down? How the f did 1969 America build ~the perfect prison? WHAT IS GOING ON? I don't even know when or if I am going to get answers to any of these questions.

Eleven didn't piss me off at any point in this episode, which is an improvement! I am not sure how I feel about the way they brainwashed everyone into killing the Silence. On one hand, it's pretty dark. On the other hand, um, I love dark stuff, and when the Doctor is kind of dark. On my magical third hand, I can never tell when Moffat realizes what he's writing is dark and when he is totally oblivious. RTD's writing always felt like it clicked with me perfectly, I always felt like I was getting kind of, um, the optimum/intended reaction that he was going for -- sad when he was writing to make me sad, disturbed when he wanted me to be disturbed, etc. With Moffat, I can't tell whether the things I am feeling are what Moffat wants the audience to feel, or whether my reactions to his stuff are way different than what he is going for. So while I don't object theoretically to Moffat writing a darker version of the Doctor, I just want some sign or confirmation that the text is aware that this is happening. He's said as much in interviews lately, so he has the benefit of the doubt right now, but I still want some kind of in-text confirmation or acknowledgment. This was my biggest issue with A Christmas Carol as well.

lol @ Rory only half-remembering being a Centurion. That is basically the handwavey explanation I would use in fic so I guess that makes sense. The Amy/Rory stuff was interesting -- I feel like s5 resolved the fake-love triangle so I'd like to see them do more interesting things with Eleven, Amy and Rory going forward, but I do think Amy and Rory are really cute so I enjoyed their scenes at the end. HAVING SAID THAT, the "fell out of the sky" thing -- really? That made me roll my eyes because I cannot see Amy using that expression in that context, which leaves it feeling like a really heavyhanded way for Moffat to generate conflict. IMO it would have been just as effective AND more logical/believable if Amy had just said something like "my life was really boring until you came into it" or something more natural, something that could be ambiguous enough to worry Rory but also logical enough that I can believe Amy Pond might say it while meaning Rory while not trying to troll him. ...BUT I also liked that we found out why she went to Eleven first about the pregnancy and their little swing-y hug. Also how cute was Rory in his glasses and suit, lol lol.

Eleven/River... IDK. I always feel like whatever I say about this ship, people will write it off because I ship Ten/Rose. But, and I cannot emphasize this enough, that means I ship Ten (/Ten2)/Rose. Eleven can do whatever he wants. I SWEAR I AM NOT JUST BUTTHURT. But their relationship does make me a little uncomfortable because if they really ARE meeting in reverse order (which... doesn't make sense?) then that means there's only the middle-ground where they're on an even playing field, and that in the future Eleven is going to kind of... manipulate... bbRiver into who she becomes. It's a bit awkward for me. However, River is becoming a pretty interesting character and I'm liking her more and more. I liked her more in TIA than in this episode because in TIA she had more character stuff, but my increasing fondness for her is nice. Eleven flailing around in confusion when she kissed him cracked me up a bit. I assume it's not ACTUALLY their last kiss because I assume the future Doctor who takes her to see singing towers or whatever knows who she is and maybe they get it on while he cries or something lol idk.

UM I think that is all. I don't remember much about this episode already, har har insert Silence joke here. Pirates next week. I'd be lying if I said I was super excited, I don't really care about the pirate episode tbh, BUT I am excited for something not written by Moffat. I feel like I've had a lot of Moffat lately. Maybe the pirate episode will be a whole episode without a time loop :O
 
 
( 33 comments — Leave a comment )
Catey: Doctor Who: Eleven thumbs upbeingfacetious on May 2nd, 2011 02:58 am (UTC)
Just dropping by to say I'm happy to see you say you didn't hate the episode with the fire of a thousand suns, because I kind of liked it honestly and I'm just confused about all the burning rage because even the parts I didn't like I didn't think were all that bad.

Also I think they were in all different states confirming that the Silence was everywhere in the USA (and in the world). They mentioned that in an offhand line, I think.
Kali: dw :: rory :: don't really have to_thirty2flavors on May 2nd, 2011 03:09 am (UTC)
I didn't hate it I don't think? I don't know, honestly, I need to see it again because rn I have no strong opinion on anything that happened (aside from: Amy's hair looked awesome half-back like that!).

ORLY? Hmm. Yeah idk I will have to watch again and see if any other plotholes slipped through the cracks.

Also, lol @ Ten and Martha apparently watching the moon landing 3 times.
Catey: Doctor Who: Ten perplexed >beingfacetious on May 2nd, 2011 03:13 am (UTC)
Also, lol @ Ten and Martha apparently watching the moon landing 3 times.
ahahahahahahahahahaha ph God. That's probably where Ten and Martha were going with bows and arrows when Sally stopped them in the street - Silence hunting.
Catey: Doctor Who: Ten perplexed >beingfacetious on May 2nd, 2011 03:13 am (UTC)
*oh
Kali: dw :: martha :: he's not seeing me_thirty2flavors on May 2nd, 2011 03:17 am (UTC)
lol lol lol

"GOSH MARTHA IDK WHY BUT I AM FEELING EXTRA GENOCIDEY TODAY!"
sherrilina: Ten (Doctor Who)sherrilina on May 2nd, 2011 03:54 am (UTC)
LMAO oh god...
morneamornea on May 3rd, 2011 02:26 am (UTC)
LOL! Yes, exactly. :D
MV: DW - Martha Ten hugmrv3000 on May 2nd, 2011 03:24 am (UTC)
BWAH! This makes perfect sense! XD
demented & sad, but social: dw_ten: ten/rose dorkspapilio_luna on May 2nd, 2011 03:03 am (UTC)
RTD's writing always felt like it clicked with me perfectly, I always felt like I was getting kind of, um, the optimum/intended reaction that he was going for -- sad when he was writing to make me sad, disturbed when he wanted me to be disturbed, etc. With Moffat, I can't tell whether the things I am feeling are what Moffat wants the audience to feel, or whether my reactions to his stuff are way different than what he is going for.



Edited at 2011-05-02 03:03 am (UTC)
Kali: dw :: eleven&river :: more like the gums_thirty2flavors on May 2nd, 2011 03:21 am (UTC)
Yeah, I mean, clearly it did not click with everyone this same way, which is why I sometimes read people's opinions on Ten or Rose or whatever and am left going "how did you even come up with that, let alone take it as the intended message???" and presumably there are people who feel this way when Moffat writes. But I am literally just baffled about Moffat's moral stance on basically everything.
Alia: AmyRory1anonymouscatt on May 2nd, 2011 03:07 am (UTC)
I agree, the beginning was really, really choppy and hard to follow... and by the end there were still a ton of threads hanging. It feels like the show is mutating into LOST or something, lol.

I didn't think much about the whole Silence thing at first, but after reading some other posts pointing out how the Doctor has basically brainwashed an entire race to commit genocide without even knowing it... yeah not sure how okay I am anymore. I guess we'll just have to see where this is going; I too have trouble figuring out Moffat's thoughts. :/

Maybe the pirate episode will be a whole episode without a time loop :O LOL considering the last five (six if you count Space and Time) episodes have had timey-wimey shenannigans I think we are due for a change.
Kali: dw :: amy :: we didn't help at all_thirty2flavors on May 2nd, 2011 03:15 am (UTC)
I THINK what they were doing at parts in the beginning was showing us what the characters were seeing -- the parts that Amy/Canton/etc forgot, we didn't get to see, either. Which is totally confusing at first to watch; I get that they were probably trying to create teh confusion of the characters, but... idk.

But mostly I don't understand the point of that elaborate opening? Why the f did they have to do all that just to get the 4 of them in the TARDIS? COULDN'T THE JUST HAVE DONE THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Yeah, it's dark. But I don't mind it being dark as long as it's meant to be dark? Moffat has talked about how last season was about reassuring us that the Doctor was still the Doctor, but that s6 is about ~throwing all that into question, which implies that the Doctor is going to be kind of dark this season. And I'm okay with that as long as it's intentional and acknowledged in the text at some point? I can't see Ten pulling that move at all, ever, even though Ten was written with a much more obvious dark side. I don't know. Like everything else so far I don't know how strongly I can have an opinion one way or the other until I see where the text is going with it.

Also, what about that clip in all the trailers of Eleven saying "whatever happens, however far, however hard, we will find you"? Wasn't that presumably in these episodes? I mean Amy was in her TIA outfit and stuff. Did that get cut, or what?
Alia: DoctorAmy2anonymouscatt on May 2nd, 2011 03:36 am (UTC)
I think they were trying to figure out how deep the Silence infestation was before meeting back in the TARDIS? But I don't understand why the Doctor had to be locked up in area 51 or whatever while that was happening. :?

Yeah, it's dark. But I don't mind it being dark as long as it's meant to be dark? I think I would be okay if it's intentionally dark... but again, really not sure about Moffat's intentions. Sometimes he is blatantly obvious (you guys, the Doctor = starwhale!) but this time no one, not even Rory, expressed any doubts about what just happened. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Also, what about that clip in all the trailers of Eleven saying "whatever happens, however far, however hard, we will find you"? Wasn't that presumably in these episodes? I mean Amy was in her TIA outfit and stuff. Did that get cut, or what? I have absolutely no idea. But Amy apparently wore that outfit for three months while searching for Silence, so who knows, maybe it is her favorite shirt or something.
Kali: dw :: eleven :: stetsons are cool_thirty2flavors on May 2nd, 2011 11:29 am (UTC)
LOL RIGHT? Why was the Doctor in prison in the first place? It was all for show, but why did they need to put on that show? I DON'T UNDERSTAND

Yeah, I can never tell with Moffat. He has said/implied the Doctor will do some dark stuff this season so I'm sort of waiting to see how it all pans out, but IDEK. I also don't really get if this is actually the end of the Silence or what.

But Amy apparently wore that outfit for three months while searching for Silence, so who knows, maybe it is her favorite shirt or something.

LOL LOL
morneamornea on May 3rd, 2011 02:29 am (UTC)
The doctor being in that prison might be important later, as who knows what happened then. Maybe it was just to give him time to get a Daniel Faraday look, as the show obviously IS mutating into "LOST" I'm boggled. I did like the opening, though . I assumed they were simply trying to confuse the silence.
she_burns1: Roryshe_burns1 on May 2nd, 2011 03:10 am (UTC)
I thought the episode was really disjointed but loved absolutely everything with Rory - I really want a .gif of him awkwardly breaking that little display. AND HIS GLASSES! *points to icon*

I'm kind of digging Eleven/River - the awkward kiss was cute. And, I dunno, somehow the feel of the show and the Doctor as a character is so different to me now that I kind of imagine Eleven as never having even been Ten. Like they are two completely different, seperate people - which I guess is the point? So, I'm okay with Eleven/River because I can still have Ten(Ten II)/Rose, if that makes sense.

...whatever knows who she is and maybe they get it on while he cries or something lol idk.

LOL - the Doctor probably would cry during sex - no matter what incarnation - even Six!Cat!Pin Doctor.
Kali: dw :: eleven&river :: more like the gums_thirty2flavors on May 2nd, 2011 03:25 am (UTC)
LOL AND HIS AWKWARD SALUTE. Rory you are the best.

I would dig Eleven/River more if I didn't have these issues with the predestination time travel consent free will thing. I don't have any objections to them on a character level. I'm growing pretty fond of River, and I actually really don't like Eleven/Rose (Ten2/Rose > Eleven/Rose) so it's really not a Rose thing. Eleven's awkward flailing was cute. But I am a little uncomfortable with how little they know of each other at the same time.
only arceus can have a perfect blog: CRASH HIS CAR TROYspud14 on May 2nd, 2011 04:24 am (UTC)
I'm sure I am missing something completely important, but I've watched the episode twice now and I still have no idea WHY ALL THE SILENCE HAD TO BE GENOCIDED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

I mean, if they've been here as long as humanity, wouldn't they have the same claim we have to Earth? LIKE THOSE LIZARD GUYS.

also who is that bb, rory wears glasses now, etc.
Kali_thirty2flavors on May 3rd, 2011 03:18 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I'm not super clear on it. I mean, they were kind of douchebags, but...? I saw someone point out that since the Silence said "you should kill us all on sight", they already had planted that subconscious suggestion in Canton, and then the Doctor, River, etc, so it could be that. But if that was the intention it was not clear AT ALL. I am hoping that this comes back to bite the Doctor in the ass. People complain all the time about how Ten made so many mistakes or was harsh or whatever, but they were usually acknowledged by the text as mistakes and there were consequences. Moffat's Who in general is devoid of consequences. People come back to life after fake-dying, nothing bad ever happens and sticks, Eleven has no real development, etc etc.
captaintish: Dr. Who -- Amy and Rorycaptaintish on May 2nd, 2011 05:13 am (UTC)
I am just very confused. And I want my questions answered. And I don't know if they're going to be answered. :/
Kali_thirty2flavors on May 3rd, 2011 03:19 pm (UTC)
Yeah, this is my thing. If I could trust that the questions I haev now will be answered, that's one thing. But instead I can't tell what is a plot hole and what is set-up. Also, I don't like being unable to figure out how I feel about episodse because it is entirely a series of questions with no answers.
captaintish: Locke -- madness or brilliancecaptaintish on May 3rd, 2011 05:11 pm (UTC)
I guess I'm just feeling a bit wary after what happened with Lost.
Churleekageek on May 2nd, 2011 05:16 am (UTC)
Mostly, I just have to say I'm glad you had the same questions I did (like WHY DID CANTON HAVE TO PRETEND TO BE CHASING THEM?) because I always feel like I missed something and it's my fault for being dumb (and/or occasionally unable to follow British accents). So that's one of my last remaining beefs with the Moff - not only can I not tell what is a plot hole and what is just a teaser, he makes me feel kinda slow. ._.

I also did not realize how dark the ending was until I really thought about it. At first, I was just like "NEAT" because I just when the good guys use something about the bad guys (their words/powers/etc) against them, and in particular it's a very Doctor thing to do, but he essentially brainwashed humanity into killing the Silences. For generations to come. What if not all of them are bad? What if they reform? Doesn't matter. Dedz. Forevar. And we don't even remember being murderers.

I increasingly like River, but their relationship is... awkward. When they kissed I loled at Eleven, but my first thought was, "Man, if this is how the kiss goes down, if they ever do it it will be SUPER AWKWARD." Then I realized that, unless they only ever do it once, their first times together will not be at the same time, and may even be way far apart. So on the one end you have cougar!River and Eleven going D=???, and on the other you have bb!River and Eleven-who-has-screwed-her-multiple-times. The second one, for some reason, especially squicks me.
only arceus can have a perfect blog: fighting crime is pepper's fave!spud14 on May 2nd, 2011 10:27 pm (UTC)
ampersand!
Churleekageek on May 3rd, 2011 04:32 am (UTC)
YES! And mad props to you for knowing! I love that comic. xD
only arceus can have a perfect blog: he really loves the soap.spud14 on May 3rd, 2011 04:56 am (UTC)
it is only the best comic ever! i accept your props and offer you your own.
Churleekageek on May 3rd, 2011 04:23 pm (UTC)
Gracias! Man, that comic straight up made me cry at the end. 355 is my HOME GIRL. She's right up there with Donna in my pantheon of awesome.
Jude: doctor who; rorydanceonstardust on May 2nd, 2011 10:06 am (UTC)
Like, why the F was Rory in Arizona, River in NYC, Amy in Utah, and Eleven in prison? Why did Canton pretend to hunt them down? How the f did 1969 America build ~the perfect prison? WHAT IS GOING ON? I don't even know when or if I am going to get answers to any of these questions.

I'm sure it's all because they want to "Americanize" Doctor Who with iconic AMERICAN PLACES. Which as an American makes me *headdesk* so hard rn. I like how they did Marilyn Monroe and Hollywood because it was subtle but these episodes were a bit too much. Now for the perfect prison, I'm just guessing Eleven was involved with that.


RTD's writing always felt like it clicked with me perfectly, I always felt like I was getting kind of, um, the optimum/intended reaction that he was going for -- sad when he was writing to make me sad, disturbed when he wanted me to be disturbed, etc. With Moffat, I can't tell whether the things I am feeling are what Moffat wants the audience to feel, or whether my reactions to his stuff are way different than what he is going for.

I'm a bigger fan of RTD's writing then Moffat's epic~ ways because I have to admit, my head hurts every time a Moffat episode is on. I'm serious, I know a few people saying that's it's too clever for you blah blah blah. I'm pretty sure it's just "WTF PLOTHOLES! FUUUUUUU" so you summarized everything perfectly. lol.

HAVING SAID THAT, the "fell out of the sky" thing -- really? That made me roll my eyes because I cannot see Amy using that expression in that context, which leaves it feeling like a really heavyhanded way for Moffat to generate conflict.

It's really stupid, I mean I'm a OT3 shipper for these people all the way but seriously? Moffat STFU and fix that. It doesn't make sense whatsoever.

Also how cute was Rory in his glasses and suit, lol lol.

I just got this new Rory icon and love it but I feel in need to change it now. He was adorable!

Eleven/River... IDK. I always feel like whatever I say about this ship, people will write it off because I ship Ten/Rose. But, and I cannot emphasize this enough, that means I ship Ten (/Ten2)/Rose. Eleven can do whatever he wants. I SWEAR I AM NOT JUST BUTTHURT. But their relationship does make me a little uncomfortable because if they really ARE meeting in reverse order (which... doesn't make sense?) then that means there's only the middle-ground where they're on an even playing field, and that in the future Eleven is going to kind of... manipulate... bbRiver into who she becomes. It's a bit awkward for me.

I really hate when people say that... "JEALOUS MUCH? IT'S CAUSE YOU SHIP DOCTOR/ROSE, YOU HAVE NO SAY." I just want to tell people to STFU and hear my actual reasons. I love Eleven untainted, to be that 9 year old cosmic kid, and add your reasons in point as well. I kind of feel for River to find that guy who basically turns her world upside down good and bad. It is awkward and very upsetting. You know how Moffat is, he loves his "OH SO TRAGIC" romances... I define that with sarcasm. Remember Reinette? So yeah, I'm sorry to say that I don't ship them.

However, River is becoming a pretty interesting character and I'm liking her more and more.

I would like her more if she wasn't the Doctor's supposed "wife". I mean with all these episodes about people marrying each other and having babies. Another reason why I don't care for Moffat's writing (but I have to say his series always looks pretty). I'm kind of 'ugh' about it. Especially with Amy is pregnant with PARADOX baby. Oh yeah I read some theories that the TARDIS got her pregnant. LOL! I'm okay with River's character now but the wife thing gets on my nerves after awhile. I think it's like the thing you've already stated, just AWKWARD.
morneamornea on May 3rd, 2011 02:23 am (UTC)
I had a similar reaction to yours... I just don't know yet if I like this. It's like I'm seeing chapters in a story but I can't tell about the story until the end. I AM very troubled by the brainwashing people to shoot the Silents -- not because that in itself is a bad (storywise) solution, but because it's NOT THE DOCTOR'S WAY OF DOING THINGS. River setting that up? Sure. The Doctor? Er... not without major guilt or a melt down. He was just so gosh darn CHEERFUL about another round of genocide. Very very odd.

I also find the River/Doctor opposite order thing weird. It means she's only pretending not to know the outcome (more or less) in earlier eps, maybe to avoid spoilers. But also it makes the diary thing nonsense.. if she KNOWS they meet in opposite order, why the diaries? No need to compare, they are not on the same page, ever. And she ought to know what the last thing they did was. And why was she not surprised that the doctor knew about Jim the fish, etc? An older doctor knowing HER? Doesn't that shoot it all to heck?

One thing perhaps positive... I now realize why she has Ten's screwdriver. If she IS meeting them in reverse order, it's probably ten who gave it to her, and cried (well, crying IS his thing). It would explain why she recognised the "pretty boy" in the Library, and also what "a new suit and haircut" meant. But again... if it's that clear to her... WHY the diaries? Unless he tells her very early on that's the role she has to play. Again... very manipulative if so. Odd.
Kali: dw :: ten :: fire and ice and rage_thirty2flavors on May 3rd, 2011 02:43 am (UTC)
Yeah, Eleven didn't seem bothered at all. I would like it to come back and bite him on the ass, lol.

Ten's screwdriver never had "red settings" though, and I would find it seriously odd if he took her on her last trip since... he... doesn't know her at all. I think that was probably Eleven, or whomever "River's" Doctor is (which seems to be Eleven I guess). But by TIA she wouldn't know that was going to happen, obviously, so she wouldn't realize they do actually get a date where they're on the same page.

But yeah, the 'working backwards' thing feels like it was invented last minute. Just like Moffat going "LOL River totally knew Rory in the s5 finale and only pretended not to!" Suuuure Moffat.
morneamornea on May 3rd, 2011 05:42 pm (UTC)
I dunno, I could see unhinged Ten doing it. I doubt he did it on the final tour, but who knows? Maybe early on before he was doubling over in alleys. Ten might not know her, but he also seemed unsure he'd regenerate (or that he wanted to), so maybe he made sure she had the screwdriver. In EOT he'd obviously added stuff to it. He might have put "settings" on hers, because he knew they'd have them. It was ten's screwdriver augmented, not 11's, though I suppose 11 could dig around in the tool chest and find an old screwdriver he'd had last incarnation and tinker with it. Still, her line about him showing up with a new suit and haircut sounds like she saw another doctor, and if they are going in reverse order... it has to be ten.
Kali: dw :: eleven&river :: more like the gums_thirty2flavors on May 3rd, 2011 06:02 pm (UTC)
TBH I think the only xplanation for a) why River has Ten's screwdriver and b) why she had the line about a suit (and not tweed or w/e) is because Moffat did not know/realize David Tennant would be leaving. This is why IMO he should have waited until he was showrunner -- now River's episodes are doomed to never make sense and be totally illogical. I know Moffat also intended to cast someone "middle-aged" (presumably older, or at least older-looking than David Tennant) as Eleven as well, but wound up being so dazzled by Matt Smith, which explains the "never seen you so young" bit as well.

I can't imagine Ten taking her on her last trip -- that would suck for River since it would be utterly meaningless, and I can't see Ten putting himself in such an emotionally vulnerable position with someone who doesn't even mean anything to him. Eleven's gruff reaction to River in the Angel episodse was meant to be because he was feeling guilty for the Library eisodes, or so sayeth deleted dialogue, and i think the Angel episodes were meant to imply he'd been avoiding her. The backwards thing can't be entirely true, or at least if it is her diary is totally useless because they're not ever goign to be on the same page so what's the point in asking? She would know that they don't have any memories in common. It sounds to me like a) River is putting a bit of a dramatic flare on it, and b) Moffat is trying to make ti sound simpler/more tragic than it is while also sort of retconning this in last minute, same way he has decided that River ~just pretended~ not to know Rory in TPO/TBB.
morneamornea on May 3rd, 2011 02:25 am (UTC)
And the ONLY thing I'm sure of after watching this ep, is RORY IS AWESOMENESS. And he looks great in the 60s glasses and hair cut. :)
( 33 comments — Leave a comment )