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Kali
_thirty2flavors
16 May 2010 @ 02:24 am
"amy's choice" reaction post 2.0  
So I am back home and bored and feel like blabbing about this episode more thoroughly. Whee!


Okay, so I thought that was far and away the best episode of s5 so far. Simon Nye I have no idea who you are but you win, please continue writing for this show tyvm.

Character stuff! Lots of it! And a plot that supported the character stuff rather than one taking away from the other! Yesss! I've liked episodes here and there in s5 so far, and I've been enjoying it, but this is the first episode that has that certain "yes, this is an episode I'll want to watch again later just for fun" feel to it, I thought.

Props to anonymouscatt for calling the "they're both a dream" thing, which I would not have thought of if I hadn't read your post just before watching the episode, lol. They even managed to successfully make me think for a second once or twice that maybe the cottage Leadworth world was reality, which is pretty big since it's ...pretty easy to assume that's the wrong one.

lol @ Rory's dream life being a nightmare for the Doctor

Anyway, obviously (if you know me) what I liked most about this episode was what we got to see of the characters.

I doubt anyone was surprised by this revelation, but we know that really is what Rory wants -- as the Doctor says, "dream wife, dream house, dream job, dream... baby" -- and we also know Amy isn't totally on board with this whole domesticity thing. That's not really groundbreaking, but I was really worried with the weird ending of Vampires in Venice that the totally inconclusive wrap-up of the Doctor/Amy/Rory ...triangle... thing was going to be all we got and I was just supposed to assume that somehow everyone was okay with everything. So I was pretty pumped that that was not the case at all, and that Rory and Amy actually had a conversation! about how she ran away the night before their wedding! That whole bit in the cottage after he dies I really liked, especially Amy asking the Doctor to save him, the Doctor saying he couldn't, and Amy going "then what's the point of you?" Ouch. And I love the moment where Amy tells the Doctor "I didn't know until right now", because that was probably the only way they could play it that would ring true to me, and because suddenly it does seem like a genuine emotion from her, whereas all her previous assertions that she's "chosen" Rory sounded totally empty.

I also totally did not call the Dream Lord being the Doctor's inner crazy, though in retrospect it was sort of an "oh... duh" moment. I spent most of the episode being like OH SNAP whenever the Dream Lord spoke, especially the bit about how the Doctor never goes to see his friends once they leave the TARDIS. So once we found that out I was basically like

And then I remembered the "there's only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do" line and was like "oh emo Doctor, how nice of you to join us, I have missed you". Similarly and also unsurprisingly I also approved of the part where Amy goes "but all those things he said, you don't really believe that" and the Doctor... doesn't say anything. Obviously the amount of the Doctor's inner crazy an episode has is directly related to how much I like that episode.

I liked Amy in this episode -- by the end of this episode at least -- which was good because I found myself rather perplexed by her in Vampires of Venice. I still don't know exactly what makes her tick, but at least where she stands in her relationship with Rory is cleared up and I feel like I actually believe her instead of going "?????"

And there were lots of funny lines. The nightmare exchange, "are you calling me a boat?", the Peruvian folk band, the Doctor ...sticking his hands out to catch the baby, etc. Pretty much this episode offered everything I wanted, so well played, Mr Nye.

The next-time trailer however looked pretty uninspiring, which led to this conversation with lacunaz (which might only be funny to bazcat89 BUT WHATEVER):
_thirty2flavors: i must say though the most exciting thing about the next week trailer for me
_thirty2flavors: was just the fact that rory was still around
_thirty2flavors: otherwise it was like ...oh. drills... exciting...
lacunaz: wait oh fuck is it the one written by chris chibnall?
_thirty2flavors: when is chibna..
_thirty2flavors: LOL
_thirty2flavors: I WAS JUST THINKING
_thirty2flavors: IT MIGHT BE
lacunaz: DRILLS
_thirty2flavors: OMG
lacunaz: IMPOSSIBLE PLANET
_thirty2flavors: IT MUST BE
_thirty2flavors: LOL
_thirty2flavors: LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
lacunaz: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
_thirty2flavors: omg lol forever if it is
lacunaz: IT IS IT IS
lacunaz: ACCORDING TO IMDB
_thirty2flavors: OMG
_thirty2flavors: LOL
lacunaz: OMG I AM DYING
_thirty2flavors: LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
lacunaz: I WONDER IF THERE IS SOME SORT OF BEAST UNDER THE SAND
_thirty2flavors: my chibnall senses were tingling

So yes. I really liked this episode.
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( 26 comments — Leave a comment )
10imd: Eleven and Amymuneca_brava on May 16th, 2010 08:30 am (UTC)
I love the more subtle emo of Eleven. He doesn't drown spider babies but he just creates dreams about how much he hates himself :)

Yeah, next weeks looks horrible. And knowing Chibnall wrote it can only confirm this. But at least Rory will be there! Even he can't mess up Rory, right?
Kali: dw :: eleven :: funny's good_thirty2flavors on May 16th, 2010 03:53 pm (UTC)
Yes! I am glad to see the emo is not gone, it is just lurking beneath the surface and sometimes he beats Daleks with wrenches.

LOL DO NOT CHALLENGE HIM. But yeah at least now my expectations are so low the episode probably can't disappoint me.
fauxkarenfauxkaren on May 16th, 2010 09:20 am (UTC)
I loved this episode. A LOT. Like you said, it's the first episode of the series that I can see myself rewatching just for fun. Also, I LOVE RORY. I want to marry him. Get out of my way, Amy!

Also, lol. The Doctor totally does tend to abandon his companions. I'M GLAD HE FEELS BAD ABOUT IT AT LEAST. Right now what I really want is a Classic Who style multi-Doctor story. Can you imagine Nine, Ten and Eleven all in the same room?
Kali: dw :: rory :: that is a SCANDAL_thirty2flavors on May 16th, 2010 03:57 pm (UTC)
Yeah, as soon as we got the "and the villain IS MEE!!!" reveal I was like "OMG now I need to rewatch it knowing that", which is always the sign of a good reveal, I think. And I felt like I really should've seen it coming, too, which... was another sign. (I DID consciously think "he's dressed just like the Doctor" as soon as he showed up, but...never followed that train of thought anywhere, lirl.)

And I agree. AMY I WILL TAKE HIM IF YOU DON'T WANT HIM.

I was so excited by that bit, and even more excited when we found out it was the Doctor berating himself instead of some random villain doing it. Excellent. And... someone somewhere mentioned this (I totally forget where and who), but the Time War and all that never really came up, and instead the focus really seemed to be on the companions and how he treats them, which is obviously Eleven's central source of angst now, and I think that makes a lot of sense characterwise post-Ten so I approve.

Nine, Ten and Eleven would be so hilarious LIRL
fauxkarenfauxkaren on May 16th, 2010 11:28 pm (UTC)
Dude, Nine, Ten and Eleven would be EPIC. I think that Nine would be really annoyed by his later incarnations. But it would be SO FUNNY! Multi Doctor stories are the BEST. And the last one (if you don't count Time Crash, which I don't since it was only a few minutes long) was with Six and Two. We are long past due having a multi-doctor story!
Dani: dw // rory // love you.dashafeather on May 16th, 2010 09:38 am (UTC)
Finally getting somewhere with Amy's characterisation was brilliant. The episode seemed a bit darker than the others too with the Doctor and Amy committing suicide and the Doctor's serious issues.

Oh, and next week's episode is called 'The Hungry Earth', which makes me lmao.
michelemiss_mishi on May 16th, 2010 11:52 am (UTC)
I assume the earth is like this:

Dani: dw // wilf // the silver liningdashafeather on May 16th, 2010 12:25 pm (UTC)
LMAO, YES.
Kali: dw :: eleven :: way worse than scottish_thirty2flavors on May 16th, 2010 04:29 pm (UTC)
It was pretty dark, yeah. As soon as they started walking to the van I was like SO WAIT ARE THEY JUST GONNA THELMA & LOUISE IT UP? ..and they did. And I approved.

Omg Chibnall why are you the way that you are.
michelemiss_mishi on May 16th, 2010 11:51 am (UTC)
HAHAHAHA OMG LIRL YOUR CHIBNALL SENSESSSS.

Oh no. It totally looks like a chibnall episode. COMMENCE THE MOCKING AND SATAN PIT ENVY.

(also I'm still laughing at the doctor being like OH FUCK IT'S GONNA DROP QUICK SOMEONE CATCH IT when amy was like I'M GOING INTO LABOR!)
Kali: dw :: amy :: i voted for this_thirty2flavors on May 16th, 2010 04:32 pm (UTC)
Man the Chibnall two-parter. This season was just starting to take off, too. LIRLLL

AT LEAST HE CANNOT DISAPPOINT ME. THE BAR IS TOO LOW.

omg I know. "YOU THINK I'D FAKE AT A TIME LIKE THIS?" "WELL YOU DO HAVE A HISTORY...OF....BEING VERY LOVELY."
michelemiss_mishi on May 16th, 2010 04:33 pm (UTC)
hahahahaha omg I loved how she was like IT'S COMING at the beginning of the episode and then flash to her eating frosting or cake batter off a spoon from a bowl sitting on her pregnant stomach. I was just like LOLOLOLLLL
earlgreytea68: Elevenearlgreytea68 on May 16th, 2010 01:32 pm (UTC)
So, weirdly, I liked Amy *less* after this episode, and I think possibly your reaction to Amy after this episode varies according to how much you buy her conversion at the end. I felt kind of like she *still* has no clue, that if the Doctor had been the one to die first, she would have settled on him. I might be wrong about that, but she hasn't sold it for me yet. I feel like I'm still waiting to see if "Amy's choice" was a choice or just her panicking.

Or maybe I'm just projecting. I love Rory and everything, but I'd take the Doctor any day. ;-)

I've got to re-watch the episode, because I'm also trying to figure out how much the *Doctor's* ideas about how his companion and himself factored into this. For instance, is that Rory's dream, really, or is it the Doctor's *idea* of Rory's dream? And would the Doctor have manipulated himself into the scenario where OF COURSE the companion leaves him in the end, because they all leave him in the end, and we've just found out that the Doctor is still as emo as ever (which I, like you, totally adore).

Anyway, I felt like I learned a lot more about the Doctor this episode--all of it AWESOME--than I did about Amy. (Except that I learned that she has apparently never told Rory that she loves him? And she's *marrying* him? And he seems to say it all the time? What...?)
Kali: dw :: amy's boys :: do you hear that?_thirty2flavors on May 16th, 2010 08:27 pm (UTC)
Ohhh interesting. It's not how I read that scene, but I can see how you might get that from it. I thought there was such a big difference from her earlier, emptier assertions that she'd already chosen compared with how she reacted later that I was inclined to believe her. I thought that while this episode did establish that Amy isn't particularly looking for the married-with-baby lifestyle right now, and she sees the appeal of the adventure, I at least now believe her that she wants Rory to be a part of that, and that whatever her motives might've been in Eleventh Hour, now she's running from married life in general but not her relationship with Rory specifically. And I'm curious to see what catastrophic finale event will be the thing that makes Amy Pond "grow up".


I've got to re-watch the episode, because I'm also trying to figure out how much the *Doctor's* ideas about how his companion and himself factored into this.

That's interesting, too -- especially because of how the Doctor describes it as a "nightmare", which is more in keeping with the ... sinister... psychic... parasite... or whatever, lol.But I think even if that is more what the Doctor imagines Rory wants than what Rory specifically was dreaming about, Rory made it pretty clear he thought that sounded like a fine life. And it seemed to me like they all had free will, so I'm not sure how far the Doctor's subconscious would be capable of ...manipulating Rory into dying, or what have you.

I still have a lot of questions about Amy, but I did feel like this at least started to answer some of them, which was a huge relief. Plus I was relieved to see that the wrap-up in VoV was not all we were going to get in terms of how weird the trio dynamics were.

(Except that I learned that she has apparently never told Rory that she loves him? And she's *marrying* him? And he seems to say it all the time? What...?)

lirl yeah that was the one part that made me go "wait, what?" I knew a couple once that was very serious -- possibly engaged, I can't recall -- where the man had never actually outright said "I love you", but it's definitely not something I would consider normal. I can buy that Amy didn't realize she really loved him until that moment,but it seems weird that she'd never have even said it earlier just out of obligation.
Beck: DW - 11 & Amybeck_liz on May 16th, 2010 04:26 pm (UTC)
The emo!Doctor has returned! Hah! I really liked this ep. However, while I normally don't mind being spoiled for stuff, while I was wandering about yesterday pulling links for T3, someone spoiled me for Amy's suicide. And for that, I think I would've preferred to be unspoiled; it didn't have quite the impact I think it would have otherwise.

Next week is a Chibnall ep? *wince* Oh, great. I didn't like "42" very much, and some of his Torchwood eps... eh. I think the ones I did like were heavily backed up by RTD, you know? And it looks like, based on IMDB, he's got another Who ep forthcoming. The promo for next week doesn't exactly look promising.
Kali: dw :: new kids :: worst fate imagineable_thirty2flavors on May 16th, 2010 08:31 pm (UTC)
Ohh that's too bad! I hate when you accidentally read something and wish you hadn't. D: I intentionally avoided everything but the next-time trailer for this one, and it served me really well I think. Ugh spoilers. You are so tempting and such a fickle mistress.

Well he's doing a two-parter which starts next week. Possibly Moffat's worst creative decision ever was allowing Chibnall a two-parter omg. (I, um, have a passionate dislike for his style, mostly because of Torchwood.)
Leahprofessor_spork on May 16th, 2010 05:58 pm (UTC)
Dear Chris Chibnall: don't ruin Amy's emotional development. You can do ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT, but please please please leave her and Rory alone.
Kali: dw :: eleven :: are you pondering_thirty2flavors on May 16th, 2010 08:35 pm (UTC)
I agree god Moffat why would you ever think giving Chibnall a two-parter was a good idea. I am just going to be watching the whole episode like


but on the bright side the bar is so low he probably can't disappoint me.
Liz: DW: Eleven and Amybazcat89 on May 16th, 2010 06:24 pm (UTC)
LOLOLOLOLOL
It deeply amusing to me. Well done, you two. (Also see: it's funny because it's true)
Paulina: Eleven_happinesstelwyndubois on May 16th, 2010 08:11 pm (UTC)
Bowties are cool.
(I just watched this episode 5 minutes ago and immediately went looking for your reaction post. XD )

Yeah, whoever this Simon Nye guy is (okay, I totally just Wikipedia'd him, but there's not much there), he's brilliant. I mean, it took me about 5 minutes to figure that both scenarious were dreams, but then I thought that maybe they'd have to die simultaneously or something...however, I didn't really see the whole Dream Lord-is-the-Doctor thing coming, so maybe I'm not so smart. But seriously - what a good episode! Like, I would almost consider it to be as good as Blink. Maybe. The whole time I was watching, though, I kept thinking, man, this is so quotable! And this! And srsly, ponchos? :D It was funny and scary and ludicrous all at once, the entire time. :P

Also, I kinda liked how the show had that brief meta moment and pointed out that the Doctor, as a character, is in fact quite absurd, with his "space box" and "tawdry quirks" and where is the purple space-dog? (Will K-9 do?) And also the point about his fashion being designed by a first-year student - I just finished reading the book that BBC puts out about all the "inside stuff" and the amount of time that went into the Doctor's different costumes was just amazing - did you know that Tennant was the one who insisted on a long coat? Also, they had to make his brown suits specially, since all they found in that cloth were trousers, just trousers, so they bought all those up and unstitched them and then turned them into suits.

But anyway. Who is Chibnall? The preview definitely didn't look so exciting... :(

And have you noticed that, this season, the Doctor is all about opening up the doors to the TARDIS and just staring out into space? Even though he's got a perfectly good window right next to it? Lol.
Kali: dw :: keep calm_thirty2flavors on May 16th, 2010 08:45 pm (UTC)
Re: Bowties are cool.
I prefer this to Blink, because while I like Sally Sparrow it is hard for me to care about her as much as I care about the Doctor and the companions, so she's already out-matched. And while I really like Blink as a standalone episode of television, it has so little relevance to the actual story of Doctor Who that it sort of gets put in a different box in my head.

Yes! I liked that too, and especially in light of it being his own insecurities lol.

, since all they found in that cloth were trousers, just trousers, so they bought all those up and unstitched them and then turned them into suits.

LOL WHAT. AWESOME. I know Matt Smith really wants a hat, maybe Eleven will have a hat in s6.

Chris Chibnall was the lead writer for Torchwood s1 and s2... which I hated, and so I have a low opinion of him as a writer. He also wrote '42', the episode with Ten, Martha and the angry sun, which was basically Satan Pit 2.0. It's a running joke with some friends of mine that all his work is a knockoff of Satan Pit in some way, hence our delight over the drill thing.
Paulinatelwyndubois on May 17th, 2010 03:29 am (UTC)
Re: Bowties are cool.
Blink is still one of my all time favorites - I'm just a sucker for Who stories that actually use time travel as a plot device. It gets all twisty-turny, timey-wimey, etc.

in light of it being his own insecurities lol.

I was wondering why the "Dream Lord" looked like that - is that like how the Doctor sees himself? LOL.

Ooh...what sort of a hat, I wonder? And will it clash with his bowtie? Also, they only had enough cloth for like 6 of those suits, and they were all thin cotton, so he ripped them up easily, which was why he needed that other suit. :) There was a bit about Rose's clothing and how it transitioned from all those hoodies and baggy jeans into tight trousers and clingy/brightly colored shirts, which was interesting because I hadn't really noticed, to be honest.

Chris Chibnall was the lead writer for Torchwood s1 and s2.

Oh ew. I still haven't watched most of Torchwood s1 - such a strange, strange show. Is it really coming back?

And 42 was terrible. Way to piggyback on Douglas Adams a bit with the whole "42" ting, and the countdown just bothered me. Like, it was a hopeless attempt to keep us all breathless and anxious...And Satan Pit was so good, too!

Ah, yes. Drills that eat people?
Austin: Squee!johnmayergirl23 on May 16th, 2010 10:57 pm (UTC)
WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. YOU FORGOT THAT THEY ALSO WORE PONCHOS. PONCHOS, KALI. PONCHOS.
i love you, simon nye, and your poncho wearin', crazytimes, rory/amy shippin' self.

I thought that Leadworth might be reality for a minute, and when Rory died, I was like OMG HE MIGHT REALLY BE DEAD and then I was so so so so upset. But then he wasn't. yesssss.

CHIBNALL. *narrows eyes* Well, at least the bar is so low that he can't really disappoint me. ... Right?
Kali: dw :: amy :: say what you want about me_thirty2flavors on May 16th, 2010 11:12 pm (UTC)
LIKE A PERUVIAN FOLK BAND

For a minute I thought so too and had all these split-second theories which, in reflection later, I realized did not actually make any sense. But then Amy's plan to kamikaze herself and the Doctor made it pretty clear they weren't all just going to die, lirl.

lol Chibnall.
Paulina: Eleven_happinesstelwyndubois on May 17th, 2010 03:30 am (UTC)
The folk band bit was one of my favorite lines. Amy just couldn't let them wrap themselves in blankets, could she? They had to be ponchos.
morneamornea on May 17th, 2010 01:54 am (UTC)
"Character stuff! Lots of it! And a plot that supported the character stuff rather than one taking away from the other! Yesss"

Oh, I sooo agree! While I think I still like The 11th Hour best, this one was excellent, and it had what had been just so slightly missing from some of the other episodes... character was not sacrificed for plot. We had a story that made sense, and although it was a good and interesting plot, it was also character driven. Yay!

"the Dream Lord being the Doctor's inner crazy" I got that one about 15 minutes in... I forget the line that was the giveaway to me... but boy, I could almost hear that guy speaking in Ten's head near the end. Such self loathing-- the dark and discouraging voice that tears down, always. I think we all have one of those... it was very LOUD in Ten's head and in 11 we get to actually SEE it. Amazing that 11 actually LET the others KNOW that crazy was him. That's a huge character development for the doctor.
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