16 November 2009 @ 05:40 pm
i can ride my bike with no handlebars  

I should maybe preface this by pointing out that I don’t actually know what the general consensus on this one is, as I haven’t actually quite scoured through my flist yet to see. But I figured before venturing into the wide world of other people’s opinions, I would first babble on and on about why I happened to think Waters of Mars was, much like Hogwarts, Totally Awesome. Specifically the “Ten shows off that FIRE and ICE and RAGE people are always talking about” part.

Ten totally losing it (as opposed to, um, half-losing it, like in Runaway Bride) is not really something I expected to see… just about ever, really, but once it started I was pretty much like YES YES THIS IS EXACTLY HOW IT SHOULD GO OMG OMG. Say what you will about his plots and his glowing and his love for recurring villains, Russel T Davies knows his characters, and really? Ten has more than enough reason to snap.

One of the things I like most about RTD’s Doctor Who is that we actually get to see characters grieve, and they don’t always grieve in the healthiest, most therapist-approved ways. As much as Ten wants and tries to brush things under the rug, it never works, and that’s always completely clear to the audience.

And I love that. I love that Ten isn’t the indomitable hero character who can sustain emotional blow after emotional blow without staggering from any of them; that sort of character isn’t real or relatable to me, and it’s not really a character I’m interested in watching. I think RTD deserves major props for not taking the easy route and essentially maxing out the Doctor’s angst. There’s not some sort of maximum level of sad that can’t be surpassed. When the Doctor angsts it’s not just the Time War or Rose or Donna – it’s the Time War and Rose and Donna, and Astrid and Jenny and Martha and the Master and Adelaide and the dozens of others we get in that little angst montage in Journey’s End. Everyone has their tipping point, and Waters of Mars did a great job of shoving the Doctor up to and over that precipice.

And the fact that what happens when he teeters over that brink is an actual attempt at the role of vengeful god makes total sense. I can’t tell how long RTD has been intending for this and so I can’t tell how long he’s been consciously setting it up, but either way he’s managed to do so awesomely. We’ve seen the Doctor indifferent to screaming spider babies; we’ve seen him dole out eternal punishment for the Family of Blood and hold a gun to someone’s head. Waaay back in that Children of Need special that was Ten’s introduction, way before Donna and Runaway Bride and Fires of Pompeii, one of Ten’s very first lines is “I can’t stop myself.” By the end of Waters of Mars Ten might further down the primrose path of Crazy than we’ve seen him before, but it’s not in a way we haven’t seen. One of the few moments in Voyage of the Damned that I’ve always found compelling (instead of just “LOL SPACE POSEIDON”) is just after he fails to bring Astrid back properly, when he kicks the teleport and yells “I can do anything!” I think it’s an interesting line beause the audience knows it isn’t true, and he knows that this isn’t true, but you can feel how much he wants it to be. So in Waters of Mars, after a couple more years of the universe hitting his soul in the crotch with a frozen sledgehammer, his reaction is essentially “WELL FUCK YOU TOO, UNIVERSE!” Honestly, I can’t really blame him.

And I think that is some pretty honest, realistic and ballsy writing for a family tv show. I love that RTD doesn’t shy away from something just because it’s a bit messy. And while anything might happen in the December specials and we have no idea what (aside from “drunken giraffe”) Matt Smith’s Doctor will actually be like, at this point I can easily believe that Ten turns into someone who scares armies and opens the TARDIS with a snap of his fingers.


Well that was long. As I said up top, haven't actually read anyone's reaction post yet, so link me!
 
 
( 28 comments — Leave a comment )
sunnytyler001sunnytyler001 on November 16th, 2009 10:51 pm (UTC)
A lot less well developped thn you, but we had the same thought
http://sunnytyler001.livejournal.com/338333.html#cutid1
Chelleafterthree on November 16th, 2009 10:54 pm (UTC)
I heartily second all that up there.

Mine!
Dani: dw // i'm amazing on a good daydashafeather on November 16th, 2009 11:05 pm (UTC)
I agree with everthing you just wrote. I'm still kinda fangirling the whole thing, tbh. I had high hopes for the episode, but it totally went beyond epic and is now my very favourite. I don't know why I find a broken, insane, ANGST OF DOOM Ten so wonderful, but w/e, he was. Even in the parts I nearly hated him a little.

And it helped that David Tennant's acting was simply outstanding, too.

And I think that is some pretty honest, realistic and ballsy writing for a family tv show.

It was. It was some very dark stuff for a tv show some people consider 'just for kids'. But still. EPIC.

CHRISTMAS NEEDS TO COME NOW.

If you're interested at all, my reaction post is here.
Kali: dw :: that much power_thirty2flavors on November 16th, 2009 11:14 pm (UTC)
I spent most of the year forgetting about this episode, and then the trailers started coming out and I thought "hey, this one could be way better than the previous 2" and then IT WAS THE GREATEST THING EVER. I dunno if it's my favourite episode ever-ever, but it's way up there.


And it helped that David Tennant's acting was simply outstanding, too.


Omg, yes. When he put the orange suit back on Frances and I were like "ugh I hate that thing, it cuts off like half of his facial expression". Apparently the only things neccessary to display ANGST and PAIN are your eyes and your voice. At least if you are David Tennant.

lol, I'm probably more excited about the Christmas special than the actual holiday.

Awesome! Will check it out soon.
Chelleafterthree on November 16th, 2009 11:22 pm (UTC)
lol, I'm probably more excited about the Christmas special than the actual holiday.

THIS.
Dani: dw // toughdashafeather on November 16th, 2009 11:32 pm (UTC)
I'm probably more excited about the Christmas special than the actual holiday.

Me too!
WHO > Presents and Turkey and Christmas stuff in general. I predict a very angsty Christmas, where Ten DIES HORRIBLY and I will cry, but still.

Also, I'm apparently the only one in the universe who likes that space suit.
Kali: dw :: cloen/rose :: rooftops of london_thirty2flavors on November 16th, 2009 11:51 pm (UTC)
Haha I mean, I like Christmas, but it's not that exciting for me in the first place, so I'm pretty sure I'll be waaaaaaay distracted by this. AND NEW YEAR'S. AHHH.

LIRL I find it comical but I don't particularly like watching it for a long time.
renee: Crazy fanboy!rattus_aerius on November 16th, 2009 11:08 pm (UTC)
Mine. Short and sweet.

LEAVE A COMMENT. I LIKE COMMENTS. EVEN IF THEY JUST SAY HI. ;)

I'll leave another comment when I've read this post. XD

Edited at 2009-11-16 11:09 pm (UTC)
saved29saved29 on November 16th, 2009 11:20 pm (UTC)
I can completely see how this doctor can become someone who opens the TARDIS with a snap of his fingers or scare armies just by showing up, but that is not the doctor. We all know he will get over this. And once he does, he can't be the time lord who opens things by snapping fingers. Am I making any sense?
Seeing Waters of Mars just reminded me that David Tennant and RTD are irreplaceable.
Watching the Doctor snap was something we have been waiting for since, nine's "run for your life" and BOMB. It finally happened and it was epic.
Kali: dw :: new kids on the block_thirty2flavors on November 16th, 2009 11:25 pm (UTC)
Haha, well, whether River's description of "her" Doctor actually matches up with Eleven at all or not remains to be seen, but I think it's sort of interesting, and I think I'd rather have Eleven be a bit screwed in the head than have him be completely unaffected by anything that happened to Ten.
Kali_thirty2flavors on November 16th, 2009 11:23 pm (UTC)
I HAVE READ.
verdant_fire: ofc: terribly terribly terribly aloneverdant_fire on November 17th, 2009 12:07 am (UTC)
I can do anything with no permission
So, yeah. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I expected WoM to be awesome, but I did not expect it to make my mouth hang open. I kind of had to process how I felt about Ten snapping, but once I did, I also approved. It makes total sense, and as you pointed out, he snapped in a way that's a logical extension of his previous losses of control. I love character revelations that make me rethink eariler anomalies; it seems that things that I found irritatingly out-of-place at the time, like the gun in "The Doctor's Daughter" and the snapping in FotD, might not be as out there as I thought.

I also love that just before the return of the Master, the Doctor's foil, Ten becomes more like the Master than we've ever seen him, to which I say: YES. BRING IT ON, RTD. I cannot wait for Christmas. The cracktastic EoT trailer made me drool.

Random postscript: Sometimes I wonder how this is going to affect the children. "MERRY CHRISTMAS, KIDS! THE DOCTOR'S DEAD!" lol.
Kali: dw :: ten :: brainy specs_thirty2flavors on November 17th, 2009 12:31 am (UTC)
Re: I can do anything with no permission
YOUR ICON IS PERFECT.

It makes total sense, and as you pointed out, he snapped in a way that's a logical extension of his previous losses of control.

What I think is interesting is that while most of the previous instances were violent, and here it was him trying to save people (in a direct way, at least, instead of "drowning these spiderbabies will save the planet!") but it still leads to an undesirable outcome. Adelaide dies and he makes it happen. He takes on Time and Time gets the last laugh. ...Sucks to be Ten.

LOL Omg the trailer was so delightful and cracky but delightful.

HAHA SERIOUSLY.

michele: dw; dear lj emo emo love tenmiss_mishi on November 17th, 2009 12:37 am (UTC)
I AGREE WITH MUCH OF THIS. However I thought the episode which was 60 minutes long had about 20 minutes of PURE AWESOME and 20 of "what" and 20 of "THIS IS DOCTOR WHO, I LIKE THIS SHOW." That's why I gave it a 5 for awesome but a 6-8 for enjoyment. However yes, I love him falling apart. He's so lonely. I think he can push all of this off and ignore his grief when there's someone else there. But when it's just Ten and his Time-Lordiness all alone in the universe, he has nothing but himself and his power and his sonic screwdriver and he has to think he's a god otherwise why is he forced to see the world suffer like this?


Also, I love that flobots song. A+

Edited at 2009-11-17 12:38 am (UTC)
Kali: dw :: that much power_thirty2flavors on November 17th, 2009 12:47 am (UTC)
It wasn't quite as... I don't know, FUN as some episodes are -- there was less lulz I guess -- but it was such a GOOD episode I didn't really care. And I thought it was really need to throw the show off balance like they did -- the companion drags the Doctor around, he can't/won't interfere at first, everything is fixed in time, etc.

And then Ten losing his shit was just like the awesome cherry on top of all that. I think it's totally fair to say that things would've gone down much differently if Rose or Martha or Donna had been with him; pretty much the only reason he seemed to really deal at all with Pompeii was because Donna was there with him. His spiel to Adelaide about how he just wants to help but he always makes it happen was so sad. Poor emo Ten.

I not-so-subtly used the song because of this.
(Deleted comment)
Kali: dw :: ten :: i hate my life_thirty2flavors on November 17th, 2009 01:56 am (UTC)
Oh, I think he definitely snapped -- everything about Mars was basically designed to make him snap (lol, IT'S ALMOST LIKE SOMEONE WAS WRITING IT). Fixed point, tragedy he can't prevent, awesome people he kind of bonds with, having to stand back and let people die, listening to them die and then -- this is the kicker for me -- even when he decides, "to hell with Time Lord rules!" he still can't really get ahead; he saves Mia and Yuri, but Adelaide still dies because of him. And all things considered this is basically just another day in the life; it's no wonder it's doing his head in. I guess I never really allowed myself to consider the possibility they'd actually go this far on screen, but now that they have I'm very glad they did, and it seem as though it would've been cheap not to.

Awesome storytelling, absolutely.
Lizbazcat89 on November 17th, 2009 02:28 am (UTC)
THAT'S THE KIND OF MAN HE IS.

But in all seriousness, this post said it way more eloquently than I ever could have. Beautifully put, my dear.
Kali: dw :: teamtardis :: only take the best_thirty2flavors on November 17th, 2009 02:37 am (UTC)
Longwindedness is my specialty.

I have a more flaily version earlier if that is of interest. It's mostly just me going "OMG SO AWESOME" over and over.
Lizbazcat89 on November 17th, 2009 02:39 am (UTC)
Your English major has served you will.

I will come upon it soonly, methinks.
Kali_thirty2flavors on November 17th, 2009 03:09 am (UTC)
Obviously. Have I started any of my final papers, two of which are due next week? No. Did I write several paragraphs about why a fictional character being insane in a television episode is awesome? Yes.
Lizbazcat89 on November 17th, 2009 03:11 am (UTC)
You've totally got your priorities straight.
demented & sad, but social: fandom is srspapilio_luna on November 17th, 2009 02:53 am (UTC)
Speaking of Handlebars...

I have no idea where I was, because I've basically spent the past 24 hours cruising around the internet going, "SO WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT WATERS OF MARS?!", but someone somewhere was like, "I guess that Handlebars video was more right on than people though it was?" And I was like, "Who are these fucking morons who did not think that video was totally right on?"

Here's the thing about Handlebars that I love so much: people who hate Ten cite it as enumerating why they hate him. People that love him cite it as enumerating why they love him. And as someone who does love him, I've always felt like some other people in fandom weren't quite understanding that you can accept that that he has always been heading towards this moment and still love him as a character. I always feel like there are folks out there ready to accuse people who love Ten of being naive and being blind to his really obvious honking character flaws, his arrogance and hubris and god-complex. But that's why I love him. I'm not a bleeding idiot, I have eyes. I don't know where people get this idea that to love a fictional character you have to, like, admire everything about them and see them as the Perfect Platonic Ideal of What Everyone Should Be.

And argh all the people who are like, "Blimey, they actually said his god-complex is a bad thing for once, I'm shcoked." I AM SORRY BUT WHAT SHOW WERE YOU WATCHING, IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN PORTRAYED AS A BAD THING. Just because something is written in a script doesn't mean the script-writer is trying to tell us, "Yes, this is my manifesto for how the world should be." Though I've gotten that with my fic once or twice, people thinking I'm actually writing everything as some sort of message about what I think is Good and True and Right and The Way Everyone Should Be. No, I'm telling a story. Hopefully it's interesting. End of.

WOOOAHHHH RANTYPANTS. Wow. I don't know how that happened. *uses appropriate icon*
Kali: dw :: ten :: no power on this earth_thirty2flavors on November 17th, 2009 03:33 am (UTC)
REMEMBER WHEN TEN USED TO MAKE THIS FACE? yeah me neither
"I guess that Handlebars video was more right on than people though it was?"

SURPRISE!!!

Yeah, I mean -- mostly the reaction I'm seeing is what's on my flist, and most of the people on my flist like Ten so it's not like I'm seeing a lot of negativity, but I am always confused whenever people seem to think that since I like Character X I think Character X has no flaws. I notice this more with Rose, because it seems like most people who dislike Rose "fen" whine about how we apparently think she is SO PERFECT! when in fact I have yet to encounter anyone at all who thinks this. Liking a character doesn't mean you have to agree with every single thing they say or do.

Just because something is written in a script doesn't mean the script-writer is trying to tell us, "Yes, this is my manifesto for how the world should be.

I think some people have an inability to do any kind of reading between the lines. I'm pretty sure you'd be hard-pressed to find an author of anything who says "yes, you are supposed to take everything Character Y says at face value and agree with every one of their viewpoints because they are the ultimate representation of truth and righteousness and all that is good and just in the universe". Just because the Doctor says something doesn't mean we're neccessarily supposed to agree with him all the time. Critical thinking: use it.
demented & sad, but socialpapilio_luna on November 17th, 2009 04:34 am (UTC)
Re: REMEMBER WHEN TEN USED TO MAKE THIS FACE? yeah me neither
Liking a character doesn't mean you have to agree with every single thing they say or do.

Given that my other two favourite TV show characters of the 21st century are Dexter Morgan and Gregory House, I'd just like to restate this for the record. I DO NOT THINK IT IS OKAY TO BE A SERIAL KILLER NOR A PATHETIC DOUCHEBAG, OKAY EVERYONE?
Ing: master | ha!hysteriagalore on November 18th, 2009 05:52 pm (UTC)
I have only seen one person on my flist who didn't really like the story and Ten flipping out, she basically hated everything that I liked with WoM so I'm not putting too much weight on that tbqh.

I think the way that Ten panics and shows true terror of what he's done, with Adelaide's suicide in the same scene made the crazy more palpable, as opposed to Runaway Bride. I'm so proud of our little whoniverse, when people say it's childish and cheesy we're hit with Ten going batshit crazy on us and the death of a fan-favourite in Torchwood. LOL, do you think RTD's thinking "Weell it's going to be Moffat's problem soon I'll just do what I like and he can deal with the outcome"?

I think he's been thinking of this ever since DT signed that three year contract. I mean the buildup to this episode has been brilliant. With small breakdowns along the way and the big eruption at the end of his run.

I like that Ten's still in his "no companions EVER"-zone but that at the end he understands that he has to have someone with him. It's very entertaining to watch.
Right now I'm basically just thinking "SHIT JUST GOT REAL" about the whole regeneration and the remaining episodes. FUN TIMES.
Kali: dw :: rose :: the weakest link_thirty2flavors on November 18th, 2009 10:49 pm (UTC)
Ha I actually haven't seen anyone yet, though I suppose there's bound to be a few. WHATEVER I THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE... THE BEST EPISODE SINCE TURN LEFT.

I keep watching your icon transfixedly. His skull looks really weird when he's turned to the side, there are like... holes in it. Do Time Lords have really holey skulls or is it just because he's Skeletor?

I will be really amused if Eleven is well-adjusted.

The interesting thing about Ten losing it is that he knows he's cracking up but can't seem to reign it back in again -- just like he knows he needs a companion, but he can't bring himself to go through that again. It's like, he knows he might be less crazy if he had a companion around to tell him he's being crazy, but he also knows that if he had a companion around the universe would eventually steal them from him in some horrible way that would ultimately contribute to his crazy. LIRL Poor guy. I really do think regeneration is the only thing that'll fix this, and I think that's kind of an awesome move on RTD's part -- it's almost like a mercy kill, which is kind of a neat way to take out a much-beloved character.




Ing: master/lucy | Mr. & Mrs. Crazycakeshysteriagalore on November 20th, 2009 10:57 pm (UTC)
Oh and it's got in common with Turn Left that it gets better the more you talk about it or for every time you rewatch it. I love episodes when you discover new things to love every time you watch it.

I hadn't noticed that earlier but you're right it looks crazy. I want to say it's because he's Skeletor-Master but it's probably another of those Gallifreyan things. Perhaps the holey skulls work as little vents, helps keep the Time Lord brain cool so they don't explode from seeing the Time Lines? Yeah I'm gonna go with that.

Yeah he's like a car racing downhill when the brakes finally give out. I also think the fact that he doesn't want to give up/die/regenerate but knows his time's soon up adds to the extra crazy. He tries so hard to avoid it but he only makes it worse for himself in doing so.
Kali: dw :: cloen :: atta girl_thirty2flavors on November 21st, 2009 02:15 am (UTC)
YES. Oh Waters of Mars. You are quickly moving up th ranks in my favourites.

LOL YES. DONNA'S BRAIN IS MISSING THE VERY IMPORTANT VENTILATION FEATURE. Poor Donna. lol, maybe that is Crazy Ten's solution for fixing her. "IT'S OKAY WE JUST NEED TO DRILL HOLES INTO HER SKULL!!!!"

I think the RAGING AGAINST THE DYING OF THE LIGHT is a really interesting way to approach it, too, especially sicne all things considered, you'd think Ten would practically be begging for the sweet sweet release of death. It almost seems more unhinged than letting himself drown/refusing to regenerate in Turn Left. It's weird because he's sort of going "I DON'T WANT TO DIE! I'M HAVING SO MUCH FUN!!!1!!!1" even when the audience knows that's not true at all.

D'aww, Ten. A lot of people seem to dislike him now/not sympathise with him, but I definitely still want to give him a hug (and maybe some prozac). Actually it's kind of funny. You have a character like say, the Master, who is legit crazy, and fandom will innevitably determine that ALL HE NEEDS IS CUDDLES!!!, and then you have a character like Ten, whose crazy really IS because he's not getting enough hugs, and fandom is like "WHAT A BASTARD I HATE HIM". Idgi.

( 28 comments — Leave a comment )