chris ([info]_fool) wrote,
@ 2008-01-15 22:49:00
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bonus second post -- i want to date the female version of myself
so, [info]bluejayway suggested an interesting experiment: list 50 qualities you want in a significant other and rank them by importance. it took a while to come up with 50 non-negative qualities (ie, i didn't want to fill it with "not stinky, not into dogs, not a jerk" type stuff), but i think i found 50 that i like, and want.
i was basically incapable of rating them. maybe that's really the point of the experiment? it will certainly take more than the hour it took me to come up with the 50 in the first place!

[info]aeryn42 suggested another thought exercise: name 5 things that make you a good significant other.

while coming up with my 50, i realized, they kind of describe me, or anyway my perception of myself. except for the physical stuff. and i can't deny that i'd like to be a little shorter, less furry, and wguke i don't really want to *be* a girl, or have the scrumptious boobs, i do miss my long hair. however, i don't miss the hassle of dealing with said long hair =)

i don't know what this says about me--i guess, pretty much, that i want to date myself? interestingly, [info]kdaisy721 specifically does *not* want to date herself. it definitely says that [info]chicafantasma was a pretty fucking excellent match, which dovetails with me missing her quite a bit. i think actually the way that goes is that [info]chicafantasma was good in so many of these ways and now i'll be measuring everyone new up to that standard she set. just as i do with all the other girls i dated--some informed more ([info]shaynabelle, i'm looking at you), and some less ([info]algol_galaxia had a few traits that really worked and some that were the negatives which i listed the opposite of as desires).

i can say, happily, that i have no relationships i regret, and that i never dated anyone without a lot of redeeming qualities. and i've been lucky in that way, and boy, it's getting harder and harder to be lucky as i get older and more aware of what i want. which is what's below. some of it is obviously less important--looks are so much more about "in my fantasies" than "ways i judge people i meet" but if i were picking someone out of a lineup and i couldn't talk to them, the traits i list are what i'd choose. some of it is more--i don't see myself dating someone who isn't caring. but then, i'm notoriously bad at predicting the future.

i guess some of these are generic, maybe. i can't imagine people wanting to date someone non-cooperative. but i know i have weird tastes in some ways. what've you got that diverges? converges? dealmakers/breakers? things i haven't even thought of? i expect a "loves skydiving" from [info]decibel45 and a few other very personal corner cases, but what's huge and important to you? do you even think in those terms? might you start?


5-10" shorter than me.
cute
boobalicious
fairly clean
medium-to-longhaired
not so bodyhairy
female

funny
witty
accepting
comforting
educated

happy mostly
mellow
sometimes emotionally variable (ie not monotonically happy)
slightly shy
immodest about body

liberal
logical
somewhat skeptical
concerned/caring
looks at the world with wonder/excitement
somewhat pragmatic
experienced
skilled in some areas
very literate
into real communication
understanding & understandable
occasionally surprising
creative
occasionally challenging
comfortable
bikely
into intoxication to a reasonable but not excessive degree
catloving
slightly kinky
monogamous & faithful
appreciative of oral sex
modest about abilities

playful
foodie
expressive
weird
non-jealous
cooperative
indelicate
willing
interested
conscientious
friendly


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[info]nandoparrado
2008-01-16 07:26 am UTC (link)
You're over-thinking this.
intelligent
healthy
hot

Edited at 2008-01-16 07:26 am UTC

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[info]goulo
2008-01-16 08:09 am UTC (link)
But you're under-thinking it!
There are plenty of intelligent healthy hot people who are homophobic, racist, chain-smoking, television-obsessed, humorless, religious fundamentalist or militant atheist, too lazy or too exercise-obsessed, too uptight about drugs or too much of a drug addict, too carnivorous or too vegetarian, too right-wing or too left-wing, too sexually vanilla or too kinky perverted, blah-blah etc, whatever would be unpleasant for you in a partner.

Unless maybe "hot" doesn't just mean physical appearance, but that their entire personality is also attractive to you. Which makes the whole thing kind of tautological and vacuous. "What kind of people attract me? People who are attractive to me, of course!" :)

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[info]_fool
2008-01-16 03:41 pm UTC (link)
there we go, you've boiled it down to a single factor =)

well-put.

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[info]_fool
2008-01-16 03:40 pm UTC (link)
if i were going to really use this as a metric of "i won't date you unless you conform" then sure. as a pure exercise in thought, it was informative. i'll take nothing but "interesting" for a first date and go from there. i don't expect to find this person as listed =)

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[info]goulo
2008-01-17 06:37 am UTC (link)
Indeed, it seems many people have the problem that they literally use some such list as requirements and of course never meet anyone who conforms. A very sad mistake if the list goes into any concrete specifics like "They must also like my favorite band" or "They must be an Aquarius" [insert obligatory snark about astrology] or whatever. I agree that it can be a fun and sometimes illuminating exercise to make such lists, and to think about how one's list has changed over time. (E.g. for many years I thought I would never want an SO who wasn't clever and talented with English. Then I became more interested in an SO who is more comfortable in Esperanto than English, and if my current relationship should ever end (I hope not!) I expect I would prefer another non-native-English-speaking SO.)

"Interesting" is a nice idea of a requirements list for a first date.

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[info]_fool
2008-01-17 06:40 am UTC (link)
yay for the variety created by time and experience =)

"interesting" is in fact the thing i seek in my life always. so it generalizes down to any aspect pretty well: books i want to read, people i want to meet, things i want to do, places i want to see.

but i think it works so well because it is so general. and so subjective. it is interesting because it is interesting. ahh, back to tautologies...

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[info]summernot
2008-01-16 08:49 am UTC (link)
good list!

you know, after over a decade loving the same person, it would be harder now to list desirable qualities now than I think it would be if I had never met my husband. that's kinda weird! I don't think it speaks so much to a closed-mindedness (i.e. cutting off the prospect of other qualities or characteristics desired) as it does to a sense of intense contentedness, tight bond, and just a different mindspace. When you're not looking, you don't think about the same thoughts that someone single would. you focus more inward upon your established relationship instead. anyway, I think it would take me a long time to come up with a list like that that didn't say "someone like Tony, except tidier and maybe with Brad Pitt's body" 50 times.

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[info]missingwatch
2008-01-16 01:00 pm UTC (link)
hey, that's a reassuring post to see. someday i want to be the one saying that...

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[info]twilite_embrace
2008-01-16 10:58 pm UTC (link)
Word.

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[info]_fool
2008-01-17 06:37 am UTC (link)
yay for being in the right place =)

i hope someday to get to invite you to my wedding on the south pole or somewhere similarly remote!

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[info]kdaisy721
2008-01-16 08:50 am UTC (link)
fun meme! people give me crap for having such a list, and my list is only ~15 items long. 50 is a lot, dang. hmm, the "not-" qualities are lots easier to come up with...

and oh the irony: this missed cxn went up about 90 minutes after you posted your entry. :)

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[info]_fool
2008-01-16 03:43 pm UTC (link)
i can't believe i actually made a list, because, i'm all about the surprises, right? it's definitely not a "me" thing to do.

and, sure, the list will put people off, and they don't meet at least a few qualities on the list as a result...

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[info]kdaisy721
2008-01-17 10:28 am UTC (link)
all right. having completed my own list, I've found that yes, it's true, I don't want to date (a male version of) myself. there are certainly qualities on the list that I think I possess as well, and there are other qualities that I really admire and wish I possessed, some of which I'm actively working to improve on. but a lot of the list contains qualities that are intended to complement my own personality.

interesting exercise. difficult. consuming. now I'm tired. night.

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[info]obsqurity
2008-01-16 02:46 pm UTC (link)
hmmm, I think I'm a bit ambivalent about the whole list concept.

It just seems like I've gone out with a ton of guys that seemed great on paper, but then when I met them there was just nothing. It's that ever elusive chemistry, that just can't be distilled down to anything resembling a bullet point.

And currently I have two boyfriends, and neither one of them is into biking! What ever will I do ??!?

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[info]_fool
2008-01-16 03:45 pm UTC (link)
since i'm not using the list to actively discriminate, i find it an interesting idea. were i to be using it as a shopping list, well,
i'd stand ready to be disappointed for the rest of my life =)

i agree that chemistry is key, however i think those qualities on the list are likely to feed into things like lively sustainable conversation and mutual comfort which are to me just as necessary components of a long-term relationship as chemistry.

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[info]bluejayway
2008-01-17 06:00 pm UTC (link)
it's not so much about saying "okay, you don't meet eleven, thirty seven and fifty!" I made my list after I was in a long term relationship with a straight edge man. I could have said "open-mindedness," but instead I was much more specific and said specifically "not straight edge," because everyone has a different pov about open mindedness. alex thought he was open minded, and I think that I am open minded, but both of us, due to more pinnable beliefs, found the other to be intolerant and incredibly closed minded. so, in the future, I think it would be a good thing to do that if I find out if someone is straight edge, specifically straight edge (not like, doesn't drink a lot or hasn't done a lot of drugs or something - completely different), that I make a rule to not get any kind of involved with them.

it's about finding specific traits that define what you find an open minded, intelligent, attractive, funny person to be. because everyone wants open mindedness, intelligence, attractiveness, hilarity, but those definitions are SO drastically different from person to person.

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[info]oliana0
2008-01-16 04:07 pm UTC (link)
See, I wouldn't date anyone that was too cooperative. I want a good fight, preferably about nothing, every once in a while.

And non-jealous kind of means that are not that tied to you. Jealous, but aware when it happens, willing to communicate that and not expecting you to change just to make them more comfortable, that I would want.

I like the fact that you specify both funny and witty.

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[info]_fool
2008-01-16 04:16 pm UTC (link)
interesting re: cooperation. we should never date =)

we'll have to agree to disagree about jealousy, because i simply banished it from my life by force of will and logic (which turned out to be a bad idea in some ways due to other emotional side effects of the overall effort, but i am glad to be rid of jealousy) and only after that did i fall deeply in love, no-jealousy and all. it certainly pisses off some people i date who *want* me to be jealous, but it's a negative emotion in my book and thus i do not play the game since i can help it.

i have a lot of friends, and an inability to accept that i am going to have good times with all of them perhaps when not attached at the hip to my S.O., including other sexy females and ex-girlfriends, and an understanding that my eyes wander not-maliciously when something beautiful happens past (if it helps any, i track boys as well as girls), well, that's important to a relationship that works for both of us--you not being angry, me not being angering by being myself. i am deeply monogamous and if there's a trust issue we can't work through once and have done with despite that, well, we're not meant for eachother. or so it seems to me.

and of course funny is different than witty =)

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[info]oliana0
2008-01-16 05:55 pm UTC (link)
Well, I think there are healthy ways to deal with jealousy, and unhealthy ways. The desire for a SO to be jealous is kind of sign that one side is more insecure in the relationship than the other.

And jealousy can be just the desire to be looked at in that way, or the desire to have that kind of passionate conversation; it does not always mean that the SO suspects they are going to lose them to the other, or that anyone loves anyone any less. It's just sometimes more is wanting. And expressing those feelings rather than ignoring or supressing them or getting passive aggresive about it might be better in the long run.

But then again, I know I can't not be jealous; perhaps you can. I'm always seeing and reading into things stuff that's not there, but implied or inferred. 90% irrational, but that's where the brain goes.

By good fight I mean debate, where both sides are well informed and passionate, and both sides learn something from the arguement of the other and if one side swiches sides, they've learned something new, and if neither side bends, they're in a better position. And whether they agree or agree to disagree, they are both better in the end.

A bad fight, where the person is attacked and not the position, is never a good thing; except if it ends a bad relationship.

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[info]_fool
2008-01-17 06:36 am UTC (link)
solid debate, differences of opinion from beginning to end, and passion are not my complaints. i don't think they necessarily add up to a fight or argument, though--i'm willing to debate!

i agree with most of what you say here--there are definitely healthy and unhealthy ways to deal with jealousy. i don't even think my method was healthy, but i think it's not a big problem for me anymore, so in that sense, i circumvent the issue. understanding that most people are not as emotionless as me, i fully support the good methods amongst other human beings (and myself, if the switch ever flips back...)

when i listed non-jealous, i definitely meant the suspicious-type. a desire to be desired, passionately is totally reasonable and while i don't think i tend to have that either, i try to satisfy it in my partner =)

it is indeed the inferring-when-nothing-is-implied that i take issue with. it totally torpedoed a recent relationship of mine because *every* *single* *thing* *i* *did* *or* *said* was mistaken. it would have been funny if it weren't so pathological and didn't entirely ruin the friendship at the same time. it's what made me so gun-shy, in fact. so you'll appreciate that i am wary of it =)

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[info]gosaru
2008-01-16 04:54 pm UTC (link)
that's a good list!
I know I'd have a hard time coming up with all non-negative qualities, so I'm really appreciating the way this reminds me to think about things positively. sounds like a good exercise.

'indelicate' is making me laugh. =)

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[info]_fool
2008-01-17 06:31 am UTC (link)
i felt empowered by it, though i suspect some took it badly. fortunately nobody raked me over the coals for it.

i know you totally get what i mean by indelicate, too =)

a lot of the list is so contextual that i doubt anyone but me understands exactly what i mean. but hey. i already *am* dating myself... (i plan on getting to third base tonight!)

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[info]bluejayway
2008-01-17 06:03 pm UTC (link)
don't forget protection!

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[info]gosaru
2008-01-17 06:46 pm UTC (link)
make sure you go to dinner somewhere nice first! ;)

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[info]aeryn42
2008-01-16 04:56 pm UTC (link)
I'll tell you a little story-- long before Sam and I started hanging out regularly or dating, he made a list in his journal of everything he wanted in a woman. Surprisingly enough, I didn't fit 100% (or even 50%), but I didn't care because I kept thinking "I don't really like this guy, he's too____" and so on, completely dismissing the idea of ever being romantic with him because he didn't fit MY list.

Later on his list haunted me, and so when I started developing heavier feelings for him, I was scared because I didn't fit his "list", and he didn't "fit" mine. As we initially started dating and getting to know each other better (oh no! the dreaded waiting-until-we-were-right-for-each-other before hopping in the sack!) I realized his list had more to do with me than I knew, and he was much more of the person I wanted than I thought. And, eventually, he was the one who initiated the relationship we have today, and he was the one to say he really loves me, and damn if I wasn't his list all along.

And we still don't fight, and we still leave love notes to each other every morning, and I wonder if that "falling in love" feeling ever really ends. So-- right now my list is:

1. Sam

Edited at 2008-01-16 04:57 pm UTC

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[info]sheilagh
2008-01-16 05:35 pm UTC (link)
Brings a smile to my face to read this, thank you.

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[info]_fool
2008-01-17 06:30 am UTC (link)
i am thrilled to hear about listbreaking. in fact, if i already knew exactly what i wanted, life would be boring and the search would be exhausting. as it is, i have some ideas but no rules.

i'll have you know, that your post actually made me say "aww, that's sweet!" out loud when i read it at work this morning. the guy who shares my desk smiled and shook his head.

i am so happy that you're so happy =)

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[info]amyrtw
2008-01-18 11:23 am UTC (link)
awwww. That's so sweet. I have to agree. When I met Greg I thought "hey, he's a cute red-head, but I'm leaving in 3 weeks and he's too ___". In the end we both realized that we were best friends and that's what comes first. He compliments my personality and I his.

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fairly clean?
[info]sheilagh
2008-01-16 05:36 pm UTC (link)
live near a swimming pool, if not a heated pool/hot tub!

seems like "slightly shy" and "immodest about body" might conflict?

*head tilt*

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Re: fairly clean?
[info]_fool
2008-01-17 06:28 am UTC (link)
this is my fantasy world. am i inconsistent? fine then, i'm inconsistent. i am vast; i contain multitudes.

but also, i think someone can be non-outgoing in public (not necessarily a wallflower, but neither an in-your-face socialite) and still not be ashamed of their body in select company. i am bothered by the girls who can't undress in the light, or lay around naked and tolerate my eyes roaming their beauty/bounty after (or during!) sex.

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ah, yes
[info]sheilagh
2008-01-17 06:24 pm UTC (link)
that makes tons of sense :)

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[info]xacat
2008-01-16 06:01 pm UTC (link)
my husband fit so very few of my "prerequisites" yet i can't imagine ever having a "serious" relationship with anyone else. i meet fewer than 1% of my own prerequisites for people that i find interesting/attractive, but i seem to get along fairy well with myself (thankgoodness).

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[info]_fool
2008-01-17 06:26 am UTC (link)
hehe, i also get along with myself pretty well though i do think i meet many of my criteria. i am glad you find yourself in the right place, even if it's not the place you expected. i would not be too surprised if i end up similarly. if ever i end up.

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[info]xacat
2008-01-18 02:32 am UTC (link)
something about this made me thing of this post: http://www.marriedtothesea.com/010808/bad-self-esteem.gif

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nice list!
[info]chicafantasma
2008-01-16 10:10 pm UTC (link)
Your list is almost identical to mine! but then i guess that's no big surprise. :) I sure miss ya.

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[info]ww0308
2008-01-17 01:35 am UTC (link)
wguke -> while. Your right hand was shifted one key to the left.

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[info]philoticjane
2008-01-17 03:49 am UTC (link)
my list mostly includes the effect of properties rather than the properties themselves. i'm keeping the long post private, because i'm just not comfortable being that open at the moment... but i wound up including things like "i need to feel protected, physically and emotionally, when they are around (even from myself)" and "embraces the difference between preference and objective quality".

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[info]_fool
2008-01-17 06:25 am UTC (link)
ooh, i really like that second one. as you can see, mine were not so deep!

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[info]philoticjane
2008-01-17 06:55 am UTC (link)
yeah, i'm totally high maintenance like that. not all of mine are like this. "knows what priorities are and how to apply this knowledge" is similar, but things like "reads lots of books" and "doesn't like fighting" and "will dance with me when i ask" show up more.

Edited at 2008-01-17 06:55 am UTC

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[info]bluejayway
2008-01-17 06:05 pm UTC (link)
now that I've been all over this post, I guess I need to show you mine! I am sorta crazy, you'll see.

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