So there's this annual thing in LA: the Screenwriter's Expo. There are a lot of classes on archetypes and the hero's journey and other things that make you want yo yell, "Joseph Campbell was a self aggrandizing pseudo-intellectual hack!" The whole thing has a slightly smarmy networking feel to it and there are a lot of people praying on the desperation of aspiring screenwriters but I signed up anyway because Joss was speaking and, clincher, Tim Minear was teaching a class on story breaking.
For anyone who's terribly interested in writing for TV or in every word that comes out of Joss or Tim's mouths, here are my notes.
Note: Just typing them took forever, so I didn't put a lot of time into editing.
Tim Minear 11/11
Tim taught a class on breaking the story for a 1 hour drama. The plan was to choose one of his shows and come up with a story to break as a group.
When he entered everyone applauded. “Good, you’ve learned the first lesson – applaud when I enter.”
He started off by allowing that the class was going to be either really cool or a horrible failure.
Then we voted on the show to break. Wonderfalls lost the vote early on. It was pretty much a tie between Firefly and Angel so Tim announced, “We’ll do a crossover! The great thing is that Angel will live forever so eventually he might come across the ship…”
Then he took suggestions for Angel and Firefly stories from the audience. None were particularly well thought out or good so he pitched his own idea – A mystery man comes into Cordelia’s life. She falls for him and we eventually learn that he’s Dennis and that he’s made some sort of sacrifice so that he can be with her for one day. Of course everyone loved that premise but Tim allowed that it has one problem – it’s not a story.
Someone brought up the possibility of playing up the Angel/Cordelia romance. Tim immediately shot that down, “Oh, let’s not go back to that. That was a mistake. Let’s pretend it’s season two and it never happened.”
Then we discussed what the teaser should be. He didn’t want to start with Dennis because it might tip off the audience that the episode was about Dennis. They liked to start an A story – for example: Angel has to protect an actress. Then have it turn out to be about something else entirely.
We started trying to work out an A story with more action and Angel. He pushed us away from linking the A and B stories plot-wise. But he did want to link them thematically.
He took a lot of different suggestions from different ends of a rather large auditorium, much to the mic guy’s dismay. At one point Tim sent him running to the other side of the room and he whispered, “I hate you.” A lot of people had ideas that were too close to things they’d already done on the show.
Tim pointed out a the ways that a real writer’s room would have been different, for example, by this time he would have smoked a half pack of cigarettes.
We finally decided on a teaser: Cordelia has a hot date but she’s called out on a job. The gang has to kill the vampire bridesmaid at a wedding. Cordelia refuses to miss her date so she charges in and stakes the vamp, who tosses the bouquet as she dusts. Cordelia catches it, and then rushes out to find that her car has a flat. She misses her date and when she gets back to the house she throws the bouquet aside but Denise catches it and puts it in a vase for her.
People kept coming up with ideas that were wrong chronologically and he had to remind us, “We’re still in season two and I’m much younger. If we did these things we’d have to go back on cannon and I’d never do that… (shifty eyes).”
Someone wanted Cordy and Angel to switch bodies and he nixed it, “Cause the show’s not gay enough.”
Someone suggested we get an “It’s a Wonderful Life” view of what would have happened if Angel hadn’t been turned. Tim liked the IAWL device but felt it was too close to the episode Birthday.
“About now we’d be thinking – where’s Joss? Just tell us Joss – what is it? And he’d come in and want to sing Sondeheim.”
Someone suggested that there was a daytime only demon so Angel couldn’t be part of the fight. “This is when I start making fun of my staff.” He didn’t think knocking Angel out of the action was a good idea because, “Show not called Cordelia.”
People pitched a couple of detailed A stories that were too convoluted. “Joss always says, “It’s just a bunch of moves.”” What do we need emotionally?
He also recommended thinking of T+4 act structure as 3 act structure
Teaser+1st act = 1st Act set up
2nd +3rd act = 2nd Act complication
4th = 4th Act resolution.
Someone suggested bringing Xander in since he was her only good relationship. Tim liked the idea. He wanted Xander to show up with Anya. Cordelia is very embarrassed and makes up a boyfriend because she can’t admit she’s alone. At the end of the first act the perfect guy she invented shows up and it’s Dennis.
He started to get excited at this point and said it made him want the show back. Someone yelled out that they could do a Cordelia spin-off. “But then I’d have to use Charisma … who I love.”
After Tim put the Act one opening and break on the board he asked, “Why aren’t we smoking?” and we took a smoke break.
When we resumed he said that the stuff we already had on the board was as much as they’d usually have after a day. “It might only take 3 hours if Joss is in the room.” He said that on Wonderfalls they often ended up with too much story.
He pitched the Act 2 break as Angel telling Cordy that her date is dead. The 2nd Act break should 180 the story. In Act 3 she learns that it’s Dennis and at the end of Act 3 she learns that something bad will happen.
Tim liked the suggestion that Dennis has to give up his corporality to save Cordelia from something.
Then he closed the story breaking portion saying, “This should be enough for me to send you off to write the episode because I’ve probably lost interest in breaking the story by now.”
Then he opened it up to questions.
Someone asked how the breaking process usually goes.
Tim talked about breaking Lovesick Ass. They knew it was about the romance between Hottie bartender and Jaye. Tim went away to deal with other things and returned to the writer’s room two days later to find that Eric wasn’t even in the episode. It’s easy to lose the point of the episode when there’s too much discussion. First you break the story then scheduling and money constraints come into it and you decide how many locations you can have, etc.
What do you look for in a writer?
“Someone who can write.” It’s not competitive, cause most writers suck. It’s a meritocracy. It’s not who you know. It’s having a really good spec. Sometimes, as with Ben Edlund, it’s just a feeling. You want someone good in the room. And someone you don’t have to rewrite too much. For example, Craig Silverstein on The Inside.
How do you get in?
“It’s all who you know.” You just keep handing your specs out. Tim wrote lots of syndicated non WGA shows. Then he wrote an x-files spec and got a job on the x-files almost immediately. Most writers suck so it’s easy to stand out. He wants people to write interesting specs. He’s tired of reading Sopranos. He wants to read an I Love Lucy where she has an abortion and it lives.
What do you like to read?
Veronica Mars is a good show to spec, though he doesn’t watch it. The Shield is good, but ending. Alias would be good but Jen is leaving. “Alias is long in the tooth. No offense, Jeff. I’m sure it’s a beautiful tooth.”
How do you become a show runner?
“You have to blow a lot of people, I’ll tell you that.” But “eventually mediocrity rises to the top.” You just have put in the time on a show and you’ll move up.
How important is continuity in a spec?
You want it to stand alone. Shows can get trapped in continuity. “Angel became a thing where its head was eating its own tail at some point when I was on Firefly.”
What are some common mistakes?
“Suckiness, I find that to be a mistake.” You also have to really grab with the teaser and nail the voices. He mimicked the X-files exactly – matching the number of scenes per act and all the formatting.
How do cancellations go?
“On Firefly they told us we were cancelled. On Wonderfalls and The Inside it was more like, “You don’t have to go back to work.””
The network needed to pick up the actors’ options on The Inside. When they didn’t he asked the suits what he should tell the staff. They said, “Tell them whatever you feel comfortable telling them.” “Well I want to tell them we’ve been picked up for three years.” And they laughed nervously. On Wonderfalls they just said, “You know how it says you’re on tonight? You’re not.”
Do fan campaigns work?
No. When they decide not to air a show it costs them all sorts of money in penalties. It’s a waste of money when they go back on the decision. They order a show then they’re like, “It looked good on the menu…. Does it have to have killers? Why are the little things talking?” The scheduling guys are like, “I am reality guy and we’re going to put you on Fridays at 8, actually, we’re going to cancel you the same day as the pick up.”
What happens to the writers on canceled shows?
“Failure isn’t an impediment to success.” They get work on other shows.
He said, (in response to something) “When breaking a story it’s usually better to work from the ending.” But Tim can’t write out of chronological order.
What steps do the writers go through?
They write the outline with slugs so that production can start prepping. You usually have about 3 days to write the episode. He wrote Out of Gas in a weekend. If you come back with something completely different from the outline you’re so fired. Sometimes they break the story in a smaller group: the show runner and the writer who’ll write the episode and maybe one other person. It can get to be too many voices otherwise and the original point gets lost. “Well, you saw that in season 3.”
What do you bring in to pitch to the network?
He just sold something in the room with only an idea. He couldn’t talk about the details since it hasn’t been announced yet. They don’t want a bunch of sample episodes but they might want the pilot story.
How do you get a job as a writer’s assistant?
The production office vets them then he meets with the finalists. He looks for someone who’s not easily offended and who wants to be a writer.
If you have time the outline goes to Network and the Studio for notes. Then the show runner gives notes. The writer does rewrites for each set of notes. If you’re the go to guy you monitor things on the set as well. And eventually you take it into your head that you want to direct and you beg and plead and Tim says, “But I need you writing.” And you say, “But you got to direct.” Then Tim relents, at which point, “You get a swelled head and I have to kill you.”
How much do you plan ahead?
Some things are planned. Darla coming back was. But things change. “There’s a reason they call it Lost.” And “Show bibles are like the regular bible – you forget about it at some point.”
Tell us an embarrassing story about Joss
“Occasionally we’d come into the writer’s room and he’d be fucking the couch. I don’t know if it made the other writers uncomfortable. I know the couch didn’t appreciate it.”
Someone asked why he keeps going back to Fox.
His deal is with 20th and the studio and the network are more interconnected than they like to admit. “I don’t see this as more than a 9 episode show so I’m taking it to Fox.”
On any network if they understand the project it’ll be ok. Only hits mean anything today. Their job is to launch it. His job is to keep the audience.
What writers are you bringing to the new show?
There are some writers he’ll always want to work with: David Fury, Steven DeKnight. Jane, Ben, Craig Silverstein.
What were some of the Firefly stories you never got to tell?
He hemmed and hawed, “Should I tell you this?… Oh well, what’s he going to do, fire me?” The original show was darker and this story was more in keeping with that tone.
It opens with Mal and Inara fighting (as they do). Mal tells her she pretends to be a lady and wants everyone to bow before her and kiss her hand but she’s just a whore. Then the Reavers attack and take Inara. While trying to get her back they learn that she had something that would make anyone who had sex with her die. When they finally track down and board the ship they find all of the Reavers dead and Inara shaking and traumatized. They take her back to the ship and Zoe guards her room. Mal tries to get in to see her and Zoe tells him he’s the last person Inara needs to see. He pushes past her, kneels before Inara and kisses her hand.
Of course someone asked, “Is that what the syringe was for?” To which he replied, “I don’t know. Next question.”
How do you feel about doing DVD commentary?
“Some of the early Angel commentary is just embarrassing. It’s like, ‘There’s Angel, he just walked in. I guess you can see that. Umm, he’s a vampire…’”
Of course someone asked about the Spike movie. Tim said he’d be happy to do it if it’s at all possible.
How did The Inside come to be?
Fox wanted a procedural and they asked Tim to take over the troubled project. “I don’t want to take over your troubled show. I want my own troubled show.”
Why did Buffy move to another network and not Angel?
Buffy was a respected show. UPN wasn’t getting just the fans but the prestige. Networks have to shell out a lot of money to move and promote a show. Angel couldn’t possibly have turned a profit for them.
Do you pay attention to internet criticism?
He tortures himself by googling his name but at some point you have to decide what you think is right and ignore the internet chatter.
Joss 11/12
Nathan came out to introduce Joss (I couldn’t write fast enough to transcribe even a fraction of the jokes.)
“I’m very pleased to be here in front of all you potential future employers. I’ll be brief and somewhat accurate… Joss wrote Alien Resurrection, don’t even get him started on that one… then he made Buffy, which was, let’s face it, a recipe for disaster… Then there was Firefly, the story of a handsome man, no I’m going to say, an extremely handsome man. Good show. Nice try. Cancelled.”
When Joss came out he opened with, “That was probably the most disturbing thing you’ll see this weekend – an actor who’s funnier than the writer he works for. That’s not cool, man.”
The interviewer asked how he got started.
“I started writing and found that it was more fun than anything I’d done recently and I’ve done a lot of drugs.”
There were a lot of mic problems. They were delayed for a comically long time and Joss said, “You’re going to learn nothing here. It’s going to be right on par with what you learn from David Milch today. What? He’s not here.”
Then the feedback noise started. “Is that good? Are the voices telling you to kill, kill?”
How did Weslyan help your career?
He said they taught him the structure and components of genre. He likes missing genre but he found that it confused people in the movie. “People have always mixed genres, in my case it’s genre salad. We need to blend genres or they become ossified.”
Favorite feedback from pre screenings: “This is the dumist movie ever.”
What movies inspired you?
The steadicam shot in The Shining is what made him realize that people make movies. Some of his favorite movies are: The Searchers. Once Upon a Time in the West. I Love Melvin and Day of the Outlaw. The last two are under appreciated and examples of his belief that if you, “make something that three people get you’ve done something extraordinary.”
Did you find that having a father in the business opened some doors while closing others?
“It closed some emotional doors. How many times did I kill my father on Buffy?” His father did get his agent to read one of Joss’s specs. It meant a lot to him when his father told him he had talent. He soon got his first job on Roseanne. On Friday he went to work at the video store. On Monday he was on Roseanne. The video store manager was like, “You wanna do both? Cause I’m thinking of you for management.”
When they first brought him the idea of turning Buffy into a series they wanted it to be a ½ hr Power Ranger type show. When he started to think about it it became clear it was an hour long drama.
“TV is a question. Movies are an answer.” “Tv runs 7 years or maybe 11 whole episodes. Which is about as much Fillion as you can take. Oh, Fox, you’ve got Fastlane you don’t need me. I’ll never grow tired of making fun of Fastlane. I’ll get up in the middle of the night to make fun of Fastlane.”
He also talked about Alien Resurrection. It was a breakthrough for him because he had to bring this woman back convincingly. He realized he had to make it as difficult for her as it is for the audience. Also he felt like he’d hit on something very emotional and universal with the scene where Winona Ryder says, “Look at me, I’m disgusting.” “And I did it with a robot and a clone so I was in heaven.”
“Writing is at once selfish – look at me, look at me - and an altruistic desire to make a connection. It’s not, “Look at me – Fuck you.” Although that might have been the guiding principle behind Alexander.” He went on to talk about how when you have a pulpit you have a responsibility to say something.
Angel started as “Touched by an Equalizer.”
When they started the spin-off B/A had run its course. “After he goes evil what’s going to happen? They make love and he goes bland? But I like those curtains!”
Angel is about atoning for who you’ve become. “No one becomes who they wanted to be. Except Nathan who’s totally at ease with his talent and good looks. I really hate the guy and yet want him to hold and comfort me.”
What do you look for in a writer?
The best writers are the best, most decent people. But there was drama. “There were times when I thought members of my staff were going to die in each other’s arms.”
When Tim came in to pitch he had the best pitches Joss had ever heard – Concept, Cool Moment, and theme all laid out. But he was so full of rage Joss didn’t think he could work with him. “What I didn’t understand is that he was working on the X-files.” So he didn’t hire him on Buffy but when they were staffing Angel he was like, “His rage doesn’t bother me on Angel, David, you’re going to be working with him.”
He talked about Firefly being too dark for the network originally. You have to pitch things lighter. “You don’t pitch Buffy with The Body. You lure them in then hit them in the stomach with a baseball bat... I say that with love.”
His favorite moment in the pilot is Kaylee eating the strawberry. It’s about people making their lives, just like we all do.
What was the biggest problem in translating it to the screen?
“Nathan’s nostrils. They were CGI’s to be smaller.” “TV is feminine. It wants to talk about the problem for seven years. Movies want to get it done and get out.”
“In movies they’ll fuck it up so massively you’ll cry, in my case, man tears. Like that Indian - just the one (gestures a dignified tear trailing down his cheek).”
People asked him, “Can’t you just get over it?” And at first he felt like he should be able to. But he realized that no one’s going to sit at their typewriter thinking, “this will be fun to have ruined.”
He advised us to think like directors and actors. When you write, make the entire movie in your head.
How are you going to condense 50 years of Wonder Woman?
“It’s going to be a long film. Not Alexander long… There will always be water in that well.”
Years ago he started adapting a modern Hamlet with a wire tap and TVs. He watched all of his ideas done in later adaptations.
Someone asked about Tim’s couch anecdote.
“I made love to the couch. I made it breakfast in the morning.” In the room anything goes until someone says something jaw droppingly appalling and the room falls silent. And most often that person was Joss.
He thinks that things are chaotic right now. The studios are faltering and new opportunities are going to open up.
He talked about filming the Buffy treatment (aka the original pilot). The crew was unprofessional and awful. He thought about quitting but knew that he had a choice between being a bitter screenwriter and stepping up and making something of himself. So he went back to work.
What do you look for in writers?
An ability to connect emotionally with the characters. DeKnight wrote a spec where Xander got the slayer powers (a story Joss would never consider doing) but he explored what the characters were going through emotionally.
His last comment was the fact that Dickens is his favorite writer, “I think some of his books ran seven years.”
For anyone who's terribly interested in writing for TV or in every word that comes out of Joss or Tim's mouths, here are my notes.
Note: Just typing them took forever, so I didn't put a lot of time into editing.
Tim Minear 11/11
Tim taught a class on breaking the story for a 1 hour drama. The plan was to choose one of his shows and come up with a story to break as a group.
When he entered everyone applauded. “Good, you’ve learned the first lesson – applaud when I enter.”
He started off by allowing that the class was going to be either really cool or a horrible failure.
Then we voted on the show to break. Wonderfalls lost the vote early on. It was pretty much a tie between Firefly and Angel so Tim announced, “We’ll do a crossover! The great thing is that Angel will live forever so eventually he might come across the ship…”
Then he took suggestions for Angel and Firefly stories from the audience. None were particularly well thought out or good so he pitched his own idea – A mystery man comes into Cordelia’s life. She falls for him and we eventually learn that he’s Dennis and that he’s made some sort of sacrifice so that he can be with her for one day. Of course everyone loved that premise but Tim allowed that it has one problem – it’s not a story.
Someone brought up the possibility of playing up the Angel/Cordelia romance. Tim immediately shot that down, “Oh, let’s not go back to that. That was a mistake. Let’s pretend it’s season two and it never happened.”
Then we discussed what the teaser should be. He didn’t want to start with Dennis because it might tip off the audience that the episode was about Dennis. They liked to start an A story – for example: Angel has to protect an actress. Then have it turn out to be about something else entirely.
We started trying to work out an A story with more action and Angel. He pushed us away from linking the A and B stories plot-wise. But he did want to link them thematically.
He took a lot of different suggestions from different ends of a rather large auditorium, much to the mic guy’s dismay. At one point Tim sent him running to the other side of the room and he whispered, “I hate you.” A lot of people had ideas that were too close to things they’d already done on the show.
Tim pointed out a the ways that a real writer’s room would have been different, for example, by this time he would have smoked a half pack of cigarettes.
We finally decided on a teaser: Cordelia has a hot date but she’s called out on a job. The gang has to kill the vampire bridesmaid at a wedding. Cordelia refuses to miss her date so she charges in and stakes the vamp, who tosses the bouquet as she dusts. Cordelia catches it, and then rushes out to find that her car has a flat. She misses her date and when she gets back to the house she throws the bouquet aside but Denise catches it and puts it in a vase for her.
People kept coming up with ideas that were wrong chronologically and he had to remind us, “We’re still in season two and I’m much younger. If we did these things we’d have to go back on cannon and I’d never do that… (shifty eyes).”
Someone wanted Cordy and Angel to switch bodies and he nixed it, “Cause the show’s not gay enough.”
Someone suggested we get an “It’s a Wonderful Life” view of what would have happened if Angel hadn’t been turned. Tim liked the IAWL device but felt it was too close to the episode Birthday.
“About now we’d be thinking – where’s Joss? Just tell us Joss – what is it? And he’d come in and want to sing Sondeheim.”
Someone suggested that there was a daytime only demon so Angel couldn’t be part of the fight. “This is when I start making fun of my staff.” He didn’t think knocking Angel out of the action was a good idea because, “Show not called Cordelia.”
People pitched a couple of detailed A stories that were too convoluted. “Joss always says, “It’s just a bunch of moves.”” What do we need emotionally?
He also recommended thinking of T+4 act structure as 3 act structure
Teaser+1st act = 1st Act set up
2nd +3rd act = 2nd Act complication
4th = 4th Act resolution.
Someone suggested bringing Xander in since he was her only good relationship. Tim liked the idea. He wanted Xander to show up with Anya. Cordelia is very embarrassed and makes up a boyfriend because she can’t admit she’s alone. At the end of the first act the perfect guy she invented shows up and it’s Dennis.
He started to get excited at this point and said it made him want the show back. Someone yelled out that they could do a Cordelia spin-off. “But then I’d have to use Charisma … who I love.”
After Tim put the Act one opening and break on the board he asked, “Why aren’t we smoking?” and we took a smoke break.
When we resumed he said that the stuff we already had on the board was as much as they’d usually have after a day. “It might only take 3 hours if Joss is in the room.” He said that on Wonderfalls they often ended up with too much story.
He pitched the Act 2 break as Angel telling Cordy that her date is dead. The 2nd Act break should 180 the story. In Act 3 she learns that it’s Dennis and at the end of Act 3 she learns that something bad will happen.
Tim liked the suggestion that Dennis has to give up his corporality to save Cordelia from something.
Then he closed the story breaking portion saying, “This should be enough for me to send you off to write the episode because I’ve probably lost interest in breaking the story by now.”
Then he opened it up to questions.
Someone asked how the breaking process usually goes.
Tim talked about breaking Lovesick Ass. They knew it was about the romance between Hottie bartender and Jaye. Tim went away to deal with other things and returned to the writer’s room two days later to find that Eric wasn’t even in the episode. It’s easy to lose the point of the episode when there’s too much discussion. First you break the story then scheduling and money constraints come into it and you decide how many locations you can have, etc.
What do you look for in a writer?
“Someone who can write.” It’s not competitive, cause most writers suck. It’s a meritocracy. It’s not who you know. It’s having a really good spec. Sometimes, as with Ben Edlund, it’s just a feeling. You want someone good in the room. And someone you don’t have to rewrite too much. For example, Craig Silverstein on The Inside.
How do you get in?
“It’s all who you know.” You just keep handing your specs out. Tim wrote lots of syndicated non WGA shows. Then he wrote an x-files spec and got a job on the x-files almost immediately. Most writers suck so it’s easy to stand out. He wants people to write interesting specs. He’s tired of reading Sopranos. He wants to read an I Love Lucy where she has an abortion and it lives.
What do you like to read?
Veronica Mars is a good show to spec, though he doesn’t watch it. The Shield is good, but ending. Alias would be good but Jen is leaving. “Alias is long in the tooth. No offense, Jeff. I’m sure it’s a beautiful tooth.”
How do you become a show runner?
“You have to blow a lot of people, I’ll tell you that.” But “eventually mediocrity rises to the top.” You just have put in the time on a show and you’ll move up.
How important is continuity in a spec?
You want it to stand alone. Shows can get trapped in continuity. “Angel became a thing where its head was eating its own tail at some point when I was on Firefly.”
What are some common mistakes?
“Suckiness, I find that to be a mistake.” You also have to really grab with the teaser and nail the voices. He mimicked the X-files exactly – matching the number of scenes per act and all the formatting.
How do cancellations go?
“On Firefly they told us we were cancelled. On Wonderfalls and The Inside it was more like, “You don’t have to go back to work.””
The network needed to pick up the actors’ options on The Inside. When they didn’t he asked the suits what he should tell the staff. They said, “Tell them whatever you feel comfortable telling them.” “Well I want to tell them we’ve been picked up for three years.” And they laughed nervously. On Wonderfalls they just said, “You know how it says you’re on tonight? You’re not.”
Do fan campaigns work?
No. When they decide not to air a show it costs them all sorts of money in penalties. It’s a waste of money when they go back on the decision. They order a show then they’re like, “It looked good on the menu…. Does it have to have killers? Why are the little things talking?” The scheduling guys are like, “I am reality guy and we’re going to put you on Fridays at 8, actually, we’re going to cancel you the same day as the pick up.”
What happens to the writers on canceled shows?
“Failure isn’t an impediment to success.” They get work on other shows.
He said, (in response to something) “When breaking a story it’s usually better to work from the ending.” But Tim can’t write out of chronological order.
What steps do the writers go through?
They write the outline with slugs so that production can start prepping. You usually have about 3 days to write the episode. He wrote Out of Gas in a weekend. If you come back with something completely different from the outline you’re so fired. Sometimes they break the story in a smaller group: the show runner and the writer who’ll write the episode and maybe one other person. It can get to be too many voices otherwise and the original point gets lost. “Well, you saw that in season 3.”
What do you bring in to pitch to the network?
He just sold something in the room with only an idea. He couldn’t talk about the details since it hasn’t been announced yet. They don’t want a bunch of sample episodes but they might want the pilot story.
How do you get a job as a writer’s assistant?
The production office vets them then he meets with the finalists. He looks for someone who’s not easily offended and who wants to be a writer.
If you have time the outline goes to Network and the Studio for notes. Then the show runner gives notes. The writer does rewrites for each set of notes. If you’re the go to guy you monitor things on the set as well. And eventually you take it into your head that you want to direct and you beg and plead and Tim says, “But I need you writing.” And you say, “But you got to direct.” Then Tim relents, at which point, “You get a swelled head and I have to kill you.”
How much do you plan ahead?
Some things are planned. Darla coming back was. But things change. “There’s a reason they call it Lost.” And “Show bibles are like the regular bible – you forget about it at some point.”
Tell us an embarrassing story about Joss
“Occasionally we’d come into the writer’s room and he’d be fucking the couch. I don’t know if it made the other writers uncomfortable. I know the couch didn’t appreciate it.”
Someone asked why he keeps going back to Fox.
His deal is with 20th and the studio and the network are more interconnected than they like to admit. “I don’t see this as more than a 9 episode show so I’m taking it to Fox.”
On any network if they understand the project it’ll be ok. Only hits mean anything today. Their job is to launch it. His job is to keep the audience.
What writers are you bringing to the new show?
There are some writers he’ll always want to work with: David Fury, Steven DeKnight. Jane, Ben, Craig Silverstein.
What were some of the Firefly stories you never got to tell?
He hemmed and hawed, “Should I tell you this?… Oh well, what’s he going to do, fire me?” The original show was darker and this story was more in keeping with that tone.
It opens with Mal and Inara fighting (as they do). Mal tells her she pretends to be a lady and wants everyone to bow before her and kiss her hand but she’s just a whore. Then the Reavers attack and take Inara. While trying to get her back they learn that she had something that would make anyone who had sex with her die. When they finally track down and board the ship they find all of the Reavers dead and Inara shaking and traumatized. They take her back to the ship and Zoe guards her room. Mal tries to get in to see her and Zoe tells him he’s the last person Inara needs to see. He pushes past her, kneels before Inara and kisses her hand.
Of course someone asked, “Is that what the syringe was for?” To which he replied, “I don’t know. Next question.”
How do you feel about doing DVD commentary?
“Some of the early Angel commentary is just embarrassing. It’s like, ‘There’s Angel, he just walked in. I guess you can see that. Umm, he’s a vampire…’”
Of course someone asked about the Spike movie. Tim said he’d be happy to do it if it’s at all possible.
How did The Inside come to be?
Fox wanted a procedural and they asked Tim to take over the troubled project. “I don’t want to take over your troubled show. I want my own troubled show.”
Why did Buffy move to another network and not Angel?
Buffy was a respected show. UPN wasn’t getting just the fans but the prestige. Networks have to shell out a lot of money to move and promote a show. Angel couldn’t possibly have turned a profit for them.
Do you pay attention to internet criticism?
He tortures himself by googling his name but at some point you have to decide what you think is right and ignore the internet chatter.
Joss 11/12
Nathan came out to introduce Joss (I couldn’t write fast enough to transcribe even a fraction of the jokes.)
“I’m very pleased to be here in front of all you potential future employers. I’ll be brief and somewhat accurate… Joss wrote Alien Resurrection, don’t even get him started on that one… then he made Buffy, which was, let’s face it, a recipe for disaster… Then there was Firefly, the story of a handsome man, no I’m going to say, an extremely handsome man. Good show. Nice try. Cancelled.”
When Joss came out he opened with, “That was probably the most disturbing thing you’ll see this weekend – an actor who’s funnier than the writer he works for. That’s not cool, man.”
The interviewer asked how he got started.
“I started writing and found that it was more fun than anything I’d done recently and I’ve done a lot of drugs.”
There were a lot of mic problems. They were delayed for a comically long time and Joss said, “You’re going to learn nothing here. It’s going to be right on par with what you learn from David Milch today. What? He’s not here.”
Then the feedback noise started. “Is that good? Are the voices telling you to kill, kill?”
How did Weslyan help your career?
He said they taught him the structure and components of genre. He likes missing genre but he found that it confused people in the movie. “People have always mixed genres, in my case it’s genre salad. We need to blend genres or they become ossified.”
Favorite feedback from pre screenings: “This is the dumist movie ever.”
What movies inspired you?
The steadicam shot in The Shining is what made him realize that people make movies. Some of his favorite movies are: The Searchers. Once Upon a Time in the West. I Love Melvin and Day of the Outlaw. The last two are under appreciated and examples of his belief that if you, “make something that three people get you’ve done something extraordinary.”
Did you find that having a father in the business opened some doors while closing others?
“It closed some emotional doors. How many times did I kill my father on Buffy?” His father did get his agent to read one of Joss’s specs. It meant a lot to him when his father told him he had talent. He soon got his first job on Roseanne. On Friday he went to work at the video store. On Monday he was on Roseanne. The video store manager was like, “You wanna do both? Cause I’m thinking of you for management.”
When they first brought him the idea of turning Buffy into a series they wanted it to be a ½ hr Power Ranger type show. When he started to think about it it became clear it was an hour long drama.
“TV is a question. Movies are an answer.” “Tv runs 7 years or maybe 11 whole episodes. Which is about as much Fillion as you can take. Oh, Fox, you’ve got Fastlane you don’t need me. I’ll never grow tired of making fun of Fastlane. I’ll get up in the middle of the night to make fun of Fastlane.”
He also talked about Alien Resurrection. It was a breakthrough for him because he had to bring this woman back convincingly. He realized he had to make it as difficult for her as it is for the audience. Also he felt like he’d hit on something very emotional and universal with the scene where Winona Ryder says, “Look at me, I’m disgusting.” “And I did it with a robot and a clone so I was in heaven.”
“Writing is at once selfish – look at me, look at me - and an altruistic desire to make a connection. It’s not, “Look at me – Fuck you.” Although that might have been the guiding principle behind Alexander.” He went on to talk about how when you have a pulpit you have a responsibility to say something.
Angel started as “Touched by an Equalizer.”
When they started the spin-off B/A had run its course. “After he goes evil what’s going to happen? They make love and he goes bland? But I like those curtains!”
Angel is about atoning for who you’ve become. “No one becomes who they wanted to be. Except Nathan who’s totally at ease with his talent and good looks. I really hate the guy and yet want him to hold and comfort me.”
What do you look for in a writer?
The best writers are the best, most decent people. But there was drama. “There were times when I thought members of my staff were going to die in each other’s arms.”
When Tim came in to pitch he had the best pitches Joss had ever heard – Concept, Cool Moment, and theme all laid out. But he was so full of rage Joss didn’t think he could work with him. “What I didn’t understand is that he was working on the X-files.” So he didn’t hire him on Buffy but when they were staffing Angel he was like, “His rage doesn’t bother me on Angel, David, you’re going to be working with him.”
He talked about Firefly being too dark for the network originally. You have to pitch things lighter. “You don’t pitch Buffy with The Body. You lure them in then hit them in the stomach with a baseball bat... I say that with love.”
His favorite moment in the pilot is Kaylee eating the strawberry. It’s about people making their lives, just like we all do.
What was the biggest problem in translating it to the screen?
“Nathan’s nostrils. They were CGI’s to be smaller.” “TV is feminine. It wants to talk about the problem for seven years. Movies want to get it done and get out.”
“In movies they’ll fuck it up so massively you’ll cry, in my case, man tears. Like that Indian - just the one (gestures a dignified tear trailing down his cheek).”
People asked him, “Can’t you just get over it?” And at first he felt like he should be able to. But he realized that no one’s going to sit at their typewriter thinking, “this will be fun to have ruined.”
He advised us to think like directors and actors. When you write, make the entire movie in your head.
How are you going to condense 50 years of Wonder Woman?
“It’s going to be a long film. Not Alexander long… There will always be water in that well.”
Years ago he started adapting a modern Hamlet with a wire tap and TVs. He watched all of his ideas done in later adaptations.
Someone asked about Tim’s couch anecdote.
“I made love to the couch. I made it breakfast in the morning.” In the room anything goes until someone says something jaw droppingly appalling and the room falls silent. And most often that person was Joss.
He thinks that things are chaotic right now. The studios are faltering and new opportunities are going to open up.
He talked about filming the Buffy treatment (aka the original pilot). The crew was unprofessional and awful. He thought about quitting but knew that he had a choice between being a bitter screenwriter and stepping up and making something of himself. So he went back to work.
What do you look for in writers?
An ability to connect emotionally with the characters. DeKnight wrote a spec where Xander got the slayer powers (a story Joss would never consider doing) but he explored what the characters were going through emotionally.
His last comment was the fact that Dickens is his favorite writer, “I think some of his books ran seven years.”
Current Mood: tired
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