SleepyWanderingSoul ([info]_delphiki_) wrote,
@ 2008-06-03 21:54:00
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Adoption
I asked what your views are on abortion so let's hit another topic: Adoption.

Are you for it? against it? Why?

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[info]erinmdmd
2008-06-04 05:29 am UTC (link)
It needs some serious, serious reform. I prefer that in the current system that children who are not wanted after they are born are taken into loving homes over being bounced around.

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-04 02:40 pm UTC (link)
Yes, I can agree with that. I may have some misgivings about infant adoption (and the coersion involved) but I am 100% for older children having stable, loving homes.

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[info]jessy1019
2008-06-04 11:29 am UTC (link)
You know. :-)

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-04 02:32 pm UTC (link)
Yes I do :) This question wasn't really for you, but because of you.

I've questioned adoption since I was a young teen. Even as a child it felt wrong to me to take a baby from it's mother. Now I would consider myself fairly anti-adoption but not to the point you are. Since you are heterosexual- youe biological children's other parent will always be their father while I believe homosexual couples should be able to be parents (like with one biological and the other an adopted parent) because otherwise- gay people can't be "real" parents since we REALLY need the legal protection of second-parent adoption.

There's already TONS of rights we don't have that we need to protect our families. I may consider using a known donor next time with his rights terminated before birth so the child can know him (and his medical history) but I don't feel like my partner and I should be unable to co-parent because we happened to be born homosexual.

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[info]jessy1019
2008-06-04 02:40 pm UTC (link)
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think it's fair to say that a child should be subject to all the ethical issues that go along with adoption just to protect custody in the event that the child's natural parent dies. I would rather see the court more stricly enforce whatever arrangments were made in the parent's will as far as custody after death is concerned.

It just seems like "bending the rules" to say that step-parent adoption is okay for homosexual couples even when you disagree with it for others. As far as that kind of adoption goes, it's certainly the least offensive/awful IMO, but I still don't think it's right.

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-04 02:59 pm UTC (link)
I don't have a problem with step-parent adoption though so I'm not really being inconsistant. If the dad (mom) is around- great! If not- I believe the child has the right to go to the parent they know if their biological parent dies.

I do NOT believe biology= parent either. Maddox's "dad" hasn't done ANYTHING for Maddox and would have happily murdered him rather than awknowledge his existance. Tiffany (as much as she drives me up the wall sometimes) does things for him and with him and spent crap-loads of money on him (most isn't actually needed but appreciated.) Who do you think should have Maddox if I die?

I'm guessing you don't know a whole lot about homosexual law. If I want my partner to have Maddox if I die- it HAS to be second-parent adoption or my family could petition the courts for custody; there is no question that they will win. For better or worse- this is really the only way to make sure my wishes would be carried out if I died. We are not even close to that point yet but when/if we are- I will be going through proceedings for my partner to adopt my child because OUR family deserves to stay together- even if one of us dies.

Even if I have ethical issues with adoption- I still will protect my family.

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[info]jessy1019
2008-06-05 12:18 am UTC (link)
Well, at this point I can't say as I think Tiffany is good for you, let alone for Maddox . . . but I don't object to parents assigning guardianship to whomever they choose. I do understand that the law currently allows family members to contest the deceased's wishes, and that's what I meant when I said the parent's will/choice of guardian should be honored no matter what. Having one's choice contested is not a purely homosexual problem, but I don't feel anyone should have to worry about that! What parent wouldn't be horrified to know that his or her children could be "up for grabs" after they died?

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-05 12:26 am UTC (link)
She's not ready at this point. Someday I hope she can be but my family are not suitable guardians Right now- I don't have anyone I can leave him to. It scares me everyday.

In the case of homosexual relationships- it takes layers and layers to protect our kind of family. Adoption is the only way to leave my son to my partner without my family being able to contest it (and probably win.)

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-04 08:20 pm UTC (link)
I'm not against it for ANY step-parent if it's in the best interest of the child, for the preservation of family. It would be far more unethical for the child to end up in family custody (and possibly lose two parents) than for an adoption to take place.

What is so unethical about 2nd parent adoption when there is only one natural parent (Case in point- Maddox, donor is dead and he IS not going on the birth certificate!)

What about step-parent adoption in cases of rape? Does the child really need to know the biological parent then? Cause I sure as hell wasn't going to let him even know his name until he was 18, for his own protection.

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[info]jessy1019
2008-06-05 12:20 am UTC (link)
I really don't care what the situation -- I think amended/falsified birth certificates should not be issued under any circumstances. I absolutely respect a mother's right not to name the father if she is afraid for her own safety, or for her child's . . . but I don't think the government should ever allow someone other than a natural parent to be listed on a BIRTH certificate.

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-05 12:29 am UTC (link)
I actually agree with you. I hate that my step dad's name is on my birth certificate and I don't want Tiffany's (or any partner's) name on Maddox's birth certificate but what choice do I have?

I've broken the cycle of abuse only to have it perpetrated against my own son because I met an untimely end? It's so scary Jessy. For gay people- there's not any other options where one can leave their child to their partner and have it uncontested.

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[info]mamaroxie
2008-06-05 12:44 am UTC (link)
My (adopted) dad's name is on my birth certificate. But I was old enough to have a say and wanted him to be my dad. My last name is his still and my parents are divorced. I think it's understandable to want your (not you specifically) partner to adopt your kid, there really is no other way to ensure they will stay with that person after you die.

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-05 01:05 am UTC (link)
Thank you for understanding.

I really hate my step-dad so that's why I'm bitter. I feel a weird sense of ownership with Maddox, probably because I am the only parent, and I won't give that up easily.

I NEED to know he's going to be cared for if I die so thanks again for understanding!

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[info]jessy1019
2008-06-05 12:15 pm UTC (link)
I really do understand why you're scared, and bottom line, I don't think anyone but you should have any say over where your son goes when you die.

Since you know Tiffany isn't a good candidate at this point anyway, maybe now is the time to start talking to a lawyer about how you can protect M if something happens, whether it means leaving custody to a friend, or your cousins who watch him sometimes, or just finding out how he can be protected from your abusive relatives.

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[info]mamiesgoo
2008-06-04 01:07 pm UTC (link)
Oh wait can I do this...........


PRO-CHOICE, man if you want to, go for it. If you don't then don't.

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-04 02:38 pm UTC (link)
Haa haa! I don't know that I'm really pro-adoption. I wouldn't interfere with a woman who wanted to reliquish custody but I think every other avenue should be explored before that.

I don't think adoption is the worst thing ever but I think an abortion is a better option for an unwanted pregnancy. (I'm not saying everyone should feel that way- just that I do.)

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[info]mamiesgoo
2008-06-04 02:39 pm UTC (link)
unwanted pregnancy sure, unwanted child I think adoption is better than abuse and murder and I cannot fathom being anti-adoption over those choices kwim.

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-04 02:42 pm UTC (link)
Oh me too! I was thinking more of those teen moms who were coerced unmercifully about how a 2 parent home would be better for their kid. Like what Allie went through- NOT okay.

I don't think the vast majority of people who reliquish custody are child abusers either- I think most feel like they don't have enough support.

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[info]mamiesgoo
2008-06-04 02:44 pm UTC (link)
I don't know who the majority is, but I do feel like there are many who should look at adoption as a viable choice that don't because its taboo, I think that looking at abortion/adoption would keep a lot of kids out of foster homes and being thrown from home to home too.

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-04 03:18 pm UTC (link)
Maybe but remember that girl from girlmom? Becki maybe?? She gave up her son for adoption and then viciously attacked me in PMs because I was breastfeeding Maddox and she said her medication wasn't safe for breastfeeding (when it was actually the SAFEST medication for depression available to breastfeeding mothers.) I will NOT sit around and watch misinformation thrown around.

Through the course of PMs, which I forwarded on to Mods because I was so uncomfortable with her, it came out how much she regretted her choice. I just don't think one (and I could be entirely wrong) can regret an abortion as much as an adoption when you know your child is alive and you can't communicate with them.

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[info]rileysmom
2008-06-04 03:24 pm UTC (link)
i think its a very loaded assumption to say that people would regret adoption more than abortion.. a very large population of the country or even world is pro life... they may not feel the same way concerning regret

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-04 08:22 pm UTC (link)
You are right, which is why I said it was my limited opinion. I know for me an adoption would haunt me in a way an abortion never could. I just feel too strongly about how I want my children raised. Maybe circumstances will change and I'll change my opinions- I never said I was right :)

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[info]jessy1019
2008-06-05 12:22 am UTC (link)
I remember her . . . her son's adopters cut her off after the adoption was finalized, if I remember correctly.

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-05 12:24 am UTC (link)
Yes and I was sickened since it was HER kid- ya know?

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[info]jessy1019
2008-06-05 12:17 pm UTC (link)
Yeah . . . that's totally common, though. Open adoption makes for a good lure, but it doesn't offer any protections. Either it goes "well" and the mom knows she's at the mercy of the adopters and better behave if she wants to continue seeing her child, or it goes worse, and she gets cut off altogether.

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[info]_delphiki_
2008-06-05 12:40 pm UTC (link)
The whole idea of infant adoption makes me sick. Like sick for the birth moms and sick at all the issues surrounding it. I feel so sad for everyone involved.

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[info]mamiesgoo
2008-06-06 02:55 pm UTC (link)
I meant to reply to this and forgot, but for this situation there are others that work out fine. KWIM? Its just a toss of faith, which is true with any arrangment.

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[info]rileysmom
2008-06-04 03:19 pm UTC (link)
completely 100% for adoption when it is wanted.

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[info]mamaroxie
2008-06-04 11:39 pm UTC (link)
I think adoption is a really complicated issue. I have concerns with coersion, poor/young/single parents feeling like they aren't good enough and their child would be better off with a 2 parent, middle-class fam with a white picket fence.
I feel like if money or another temporary situation was not the reason for having your baby adopted then it's probably for the best. But when a temporary issue is why someone gives there baby up for adoption it makes me sad, and uncomfortable with agreeing that it was the best choice.
I also agree that abortion is something I could live with more easily, there is no way I could give a baby up for adoption, but you know me, I <3 abortions!

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