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  • Jun. 3rd, 2008 at 11:29 AM
flash
Clinton To Concede Race



EDIT:

At the time I originally posted this both CNN and MSNBC were saying the same thing. Now, this was updated about 1215 ET:

Clinton Won't Concede

Comments

[info]cmhcub4u wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 03:36 pm (UTC)
Lets hope he will pick her as a running mate.
[info]ericdabear wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 03:50 pm (UTC)
eh, cnn says he campaign manager says no.

I seriously doubt she'd toss in the towel before today's results are in. This seems more like a crackpot attempt at deflating some of her votes. (and no, I'm not suggesting Obama is behind it)
[info]_decibel_ wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 04:17 pm (UTC)
at the time I posted this originally, both CNN and MSNBC were saying the same thing. Now, it's different.
[info]ursaloco2 wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 04:01 pm (UTC)
Reuters reports that AP called that one wrong.
[info]ursaloco2 wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 06:36 pm (UTC)
That says Obama has enough delegates. We were talking about Hillary conceding. Entirely two different things.
[info]grumblor wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 04:20 pm (UTC)
I don't think she will accept the spot as VP. You don't work as hard as she did and win (supposedly; I haven't actually seen the numbers) the popular vote to accept a role as useless as VP. Obama ought to promise her Secretary of State or something along those lines. I hope she keeps on truckin', if only to prove a point.
[info]inmfs wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 05:01 pm (UTC)
At this point there is little "point" for her to prove - its not so much about playground politics now. I seriously doubt Obama would make her VP - but I could see (and have heard rumors) of a possible cabinet spot in a health care related field.

Dunno if she'd take that either though.
[info]grumblor wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 05:09 pm (UTC)
Well, there are still a large number of undecided superdelegates. If she keeps on going, and she has the popular vote, it will be hard for the superdelegates to ignore her.

The smartest thing for him to do is make her VP to carry over her supporters, without whom he will be fighting an uphill battle against McCain. The polls show that a Obama/Clinton ticket would beat McCain, but Obama/anyone-else might not.
[info]inmfs wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 05:25 pm (UTC)
Polls have shown both ways, actually. It all depends on who is conducting the poll. What is consistent, though, is that most every "democrat vs republican" poll is coming up heavily in favor of democrat. The whole "more able to win a general election" argument has always been a bit of a croc anyway. She's lost the primary, and he was able to win by establishing a coalition of all voters from all segments into a winning combination. Technically, the same arguments she's making could be used against Clinton: How can she expect to win in the fall when she's performed so poorly in the educated and independent voter blocks?

Don't rely on any "popular vote" arguments from either side. Truthfully, we'll never know. Though logically it can be deduced that Obama won that vote by a large margin. Currently, depending on the count, estimates put them neck and neck, with either a slight lead for Obama or Clinton. Realistically, they are guestimates. Most states with caucuses (where Obama won by large margins) don't track 'popular' votes - on the result of each caucus. Also, the "leads" that Clinton claims (and the ones people report) are based on including Michigan, where Obama wasn't even on the ballot and hence not earning any votes. Its an incredibly weak position to claim, which is why she isn't winning over super delegates with that argument.
[info]baeritone wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 08:39 pm (UTC)
"Polls have shown both ways, actually. It all depends on who is conducting the poll. What is consistent, though, is that most every "democrat vs republican" poll is coming up heavily in favor of democrat."

Not true.

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/general_election_match_up_history

For Rasmussen Reports and the quality of the data there, this link:

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/about_us

And here's a link as to why Obama might be in trouble:

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_froma_harrop/white_women_take_the_gloves_off
[info]inmfs wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 09:37 pm (UTC)
Ok, let's see here...

Rasmussen reports...
Rasmussen reports...
and...
Rasnmussen reports!

What I said earlier was that polls are showing both sides, depending on the source. You gave me one source. Here's a few others for variety:

GALLUP (nationally recognized independent polling)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/105529/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Edges-Ahead-Clinton.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/107407/Obama-Surge-Fairly-BroadBased.aspx
This next one is great, shows general election coverage, comparing Clinton/Obama against McCain - shows neither side performing consistently better. Clinton currently has a 1 pt lead, whereas Obama has a 1 point deficit. Two weeks ago, Obama had a three point lead to Clinton's 1 point lead. We'll see more when it comes general election time:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/election2008.aspx

Within hours of each other, these were released:
Obama ahead of McCain:
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hk-LpSM4xcSjQ69tdQmi7bcGBCKQ
Clinton performs better against McCain:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/06/poll_indicates.html


Here's two competing memos from the DNC and RNC, detailing the tricky path that McCain faces:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/03/1101533.aspx

"The Gallup poll found that 58 percent of Americans have a positive image of Obama, 56 view McCain favorably and 54 have a good opinion of Clinton."
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hk-LpSM4xcSjQ69tdQmi7bcGBCKQ

Regarding the overall favorable chances of Republicans versus Democrats, here's the clip from a recent Harris poll:
"Around 40 percent of independent voters said they would vote for Clinton or Obama, while around 36 percent said they would choose McCain.

Those numbers have "held pretty consistent for the past three months," Harris said.

President George W. Bush's approval rating was just 28 percent." (remember, to court the conservatives, McCain is going buddy buddy with Bush)

Combine that with, given recent polls from all candidates, considering the "top issues" so far - the economy, the war, the environment - Democrats are heavily favored to perform better (and be on the side of public opinion) on all those issues compared to Republicans.

The truth of the matter is that a lot of it was meaningless - it will all start to become a lot more clear as soon as the Democratic nominee is determined and the general election begins.
[info]baeritone wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 10:53 pm (UTC)
I linked Rasmussen Reports exclusively because it is generally agreed to be the least biased and most accurate of polls. Of the polls you listed, Gallup is probably the least biased and most accurate of the polls existing prior to the formation of Rasmussen. And Gallup is calling it about even - same as Rasmussen.

Gallup also addresses the possible loss of the white middle-aged female vote in this article:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107659/Hillary-Maintains-Loyalty-Democratic-Women-End.aspx

Excerpt:

Implications

Democrats traditionally do better among women than among men in general-election presidential matchups. Assuming that Obama gains the Democratic nomination, as appears all but certain, he will need to depend on a strong turnout among women to assure his victory or, conversely, he will need to disrupt the typical pattern by which men skew toward voting for the Republican presidential candidate.

The data reviewed here among Democratic voters show clearly the degree to which Clinton, the first major-party female presidential candidate to make it this far in the process, has capitalized on the strength of Democratic women as a core constituency. This suggests that Obama thus has the general-election challenge of gaining strength among the women who have favored Clinton, or capitalizing on the opportunity provided by the men who have supported his candidacy. Some observers have suggested that Obama could face a backlash of sorts among Democratic women and thus run the risk of losing their votes in the general election.


Causasian female women were among the voters who turned 1980 into a Reagan win, when one percent in a decently sized, historically Democratic demographic almost certainly made a difference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election%2C_1980#Voter_demographics
(Source: CBS News/ New York Times interviews with 12,782 voters as they left the polls, as reported in the New York Times, November 9, 1980, p. 28, and in further analysis.)

I am afraid of this; men have a tendency to vote Republican, and Caucasian women could turn the tide if they feel disenfranchised enough. Obama is also going to have to face a great deal of tacit racism that he hasn't yet had to face, and he won't be able to fight it because those who hold such views are in hiding from the PC machine.

I just think it's going to be a much harder road than you're making it seem here.
[info]inmfs wrote:
Jun. 3rd, 2008 11:27 pm (UTC)
Fair enough - I linked Gallup because Rasmussen linked to some fairly obvious opinion pieces (the women in particular used language clearly indicating a bias on the part of the reporter). I'm not saying that some women out there aren't upset or feel that way, I just wanted to link to reports. I'm so/so on the objectivity of Rasmussen, but that's fine. Either way, we agree that polls indicate very little right now (generally the margin of error is greater than the difference on some of these).

I see your point that it won't be as easy as I may make it seem come November, but again, I have a hard time seriously believing people would vote for another Republican term. Then again, I also had a hard time believing anyone could vote for Bush in the first place.
[info]baeritone wrote:
Jun. 4th, 2008 12:38 am (UTC)
"Then again, I also had a hard time believing anyone could vote for Bush in the first place."

On that, we definitely agree. Almost four years later, I still don't understand it.